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Please Read if you are on Shared Ownership Scheme or a Leaseholder or Pay Service Charges

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  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,471 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    There are some factual errors in the above posts. I think the case against Leasehold would be stronger without them.
  • rachel230
    rachel230 Posts: 209 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Sachs wrote: »
    You're not wrong that some reforms are needed but your scattergun approach doesn't help. You've mentioned about 4 different issues, some the government has already stopped (leasehold housing) and some the government have announced action on.

    I think you need to really understand the issue you are trying to raise awareness on. Be specific.

    Really? When did this happen? The house builders up the road from me clearly don`t know this new law? Can you tell me when it was stopped?
  • Rock-on
    Rock-on Posts: 7 Forumite
    Leasehold is an archaic system which needs at the very least to be drastically reformed, preferably abolished completely. The OP was asking leaseholders to help by signing the petition so that we raise awareness of the situation many leaseholders are in which is by no means through their own stupidity, far from it.
    As for the wonderful system of shared ownership, that was and still is, being advertised as being a 'step on the property ladder'. Nothing could be further from the truth, completely mis-sold. Large numbers of shared owners are finding they have places that are unsaleable as mortgage companies will not lend on them, in many areas the only way to re-sell is to sell at a hefty loss, unless they have staircased to 100% they cannot sub-let to offset ever increasing fees, and more than that, if the lease is shortening they cannot extend the lease.
    If you don't pay the increasing fees, you forfeit your home and this is the can be the same with any leasehold property. Forfeiture means you lose everything and can even face more charges for the privilege of having your home taken off you. Unlike consumer law, if the debt for example is £10,000 and the property is worth £100,000 you do not have any right to any residual amount after the debt and charges have been paid off unlike under consumer law where the residual amount is repaid to the debtor.
    Do those on here who think we were all stupid and made fully aware of the situation when we bought these places really think any of us would have signed anything to enter into such a biased arrangement? No we would most definitely not have agreed to any of this. It doesn't matter which solicitor was used, what estate agent was involved, what developer was involved or what questions were asked, buyers were simply not made aware of toxic covenants. Leasehold was massively mis-sold and now we are all stuck with property we can't sell so can't move on.
    With the petition, all we are asking is for leaseholders to sign so that the whole situation of leasehold can be reviewed. Leaseholders have less rights than rental tenants, not more. We stand to lose far more than any rental tenant and, despite some opinions, none of us would even remotely have considered buying leasehold had we been in possession of all the facts at the time of purchase.
  • rachel230
    rachel230 Posts: 209 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Clearly some very superior beings on here who are far smarter than the hundreds of thousands of people who have fallen into the leasehold trap. This is especially (though not limited to) new builds. Lied to, misled, sweet talked into using the house builders own solicitors, promised one thing but got something totally different e.g. told they could buy the freehold after two years...then the house builders sold on the land to faceless, overseas investors before the two years were up (all totally legal at the moment).
    Clearly all those commenting are expert, property solicitors who can interpret deliberately confusing language in the leases (which are usually given at the 11th hour).
    Before anyone asks "Why didn`t the buyer ask for the lease to be explained?" - they did - and were misled totally by the conveyancers who were actually working for the property developers.
    And that`s why there are mass class actions about to start against these conveyancers (as advised by the government themselves who want to keep the status quo - and not upset those who line their pockets).
    But hey - hundreds of thousands of people out there who are clearly stupid....
    On a final note - if you are thinking of buying a new build - beware. Don`t believe the sweet talk. Do your (very indepth) research.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,471 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 29 March 2019 at 1:23AM
    rachel230 wrote: »
    Clearly some very superior beings on here who are far smarter than the hundreds of thousands of people who have fallen into the leasehold trap.
    You're going to need to explain what you mean by "leasehold trap", because at the moment it comes over as just ranting without much of a context. What is it that people are being "trapped" into, and how does the "trap" function in terms of preventing them from changing?
    This is especially (though not limited to) new builds. Lied to, misled, sweet talked into using the house builders own solicitors, promised one thing but got something totally different e.g. told they could buy the freehold after two years...then the house builders sold on the land to faceless, overseas investors before the two years were up (all totally legal at the moment).
    Clearly all those commenting are expert, property solicitors who can interpret deliberately confusing language.
    Before anyone asks "Why didn`t the buyer ask for it to be explained?" - they did - and were misled totally by the conveyancers who were actually working for the property developers.
    Again - what specifically was not explained or was the buyer deceived over? Or was it simply that the Developer and the Conveyancer assumed that the buyer knew what Leasehold was (as would be reasonable).

    I'm not a property solicitor, but I have bought and sold many properties including my fair share of Leasehold properties. I understand the nature of Leasehold tenure and I have generally been treated fairly by the various Freeholders and Management Companies. I have also been involved in both RTM and Freehold purchases.

    Yes, I think there is a need for reform, however some of the basic issues like shared responsibility for building/estate maintenance are not magically going to go away.

    I appreciate that you all have an axe to grind here, but I think MSE would want the basis of posting on behalf of an organised campaign to be generally factual and not unduly melodramatic. Objecting to other posters' factual observations is not a great starting point, TBH.
  • rachel230
    rachel230 Posts: 209 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Cornucopia wrote: »
    You're going to need to explain what you mean by "leasehold trap", because at the moment it comes over as just ranting without much of a context. What is it that people are being "trapped" into, and how does the "trap" function in terms of preventing them from changing?


    Again - what specifically was not explained or was the buyer deceived over? Or was it simply that the Developer and the Conveyancer assumed that the buyer knew what Leasehold was (as would be reasonable).

    I'm not a property solicitor, but I have bought and sold many properties including my fair share of Leasehold properties. I understand the nature of Leasehold tenure and I have generally been treated fairly by the various Freeholders and Management Companies. I have also been involved in both RTM and Freehold purchases.

    Yes, I think there is a need for reform, however some of the basic issues like shared responsibility for building/estate maintenance are not magically going to go away.

    I appreciate that you all have an axe to grind here, but I think MSE would want the basis of posting on behalf of an organised campaign to be generally factual and not unduly melodramatic. Objecting to other posters' factual observations is not a great starting point, TBH.

    Hi Cornucopia,
    Thanks for the reply. If you read my post you`ll see at least one serious example of how buyers were misled.
    By the way, please could you point me to the new law that says selling houses as leasehold has now been stopped as you stated previously. I am so happy that you have told me that news because of course there was no reason to make houses leasehold except to extort money for nothing!
  • Katgrit
    Katgrit Posts: 555 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Hi just to add, i was only trying to raise some kind of awareness on this matter.
    I think that maybe there was only you who weren't aware.
  • mkgirlchick
    mkgirlchick Posts: 20 Forumite
    edited 29 March 2019 at 8:36AM
    rachel230 wrote: »
    Hi Cornucopia,
    Thanks for the reply. If you read my post you`ll see at least one serious example of how buyers were misled.
    By the way, please could you point me to the new law that says selling houses as leasehold has now been stopped as you stated previously. I am so happy that you have told me that news because of course there was no reason to make houses leasehold except to extort money for nothing!


    https://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2018/january/ban-on-almost-all-new-leasehold-houses-in-england-to-have-retrospective-effect-says-government/
    they have now been banned, its one step forward. Leasehold on actual houses most the time is definately not needed - however i feel it shows that Leasehold has become a cash cow (the whole fact that they were up for sale unnec on leasehold in the first place probably shows leasehold is a cashcow, so they can charge for expensive lease extensions, service charges etc).
    If you havent already - sign our petition and raise awareness to others - some people will not understand what leasehold really is in law etc.
  • Sachs
    Sachs Posts: 173 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 100 Posts
    edited 29 March 2019 at 9:04AM
    rachel230 wrote: »
    Really? When did this happen? The house builders up the road from me clearly don`t know this new law? Can you tell me when it was stopped?
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-42439155
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,471 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    rachel230 wrote: »
    Hi Cornucopia,
    Thanks for the reply. If you read my post you`ll see at least one serious example of how buyers were misled.
    That they were told that they could buy the Freehold after 2 years? That's not misleading - that's at worst an oversimplification.
    By the way, please could you point me to the new law that says selling houses as leasehold has now been stopped as you stated previously. I am so happy that you have told me that news because of course there was no reason to make houses leasehold except to extort money for nothing!
    It wasn't actually me that mentioned it, but two posters have given two sources above - thanks for that.

    I agree with you about there being no need for Leasehold houses as a general rule. The only exception being where developers/planners have pushed the housing density to such an extent that properties are being vertically staggered, and that can require either a Leasehold arrangement or possibly more than one title. (I am aware of an estate where many houses have more than one title - a Freehold title for the House, and a Leasehold title for the Garage, because it is underneath a separate flat).

    In my experience, there's no substitute for having a good grasp of the facts (and sadly, the jargon) when seeking change to an official policy. Ranting about how generally unfair it is can only get you so far, and if there are technical, factual errors in what you are saying it will deter support from professionals and those members of the public who are aware of the defects in what you are saying.

    It's also important with something as widespread as this to be clear about things that are a big issue for a small proportion of cases (like exploitation of Leasehold houses), things that are largely theoretical risks (like forfeiture of Leases), and things that are a more minor menace but that affect everyone (like the potential for padding in Service Charge accounts).
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