Laura Ashley made to order Chair

unholyangel

Tbh I'm not sure whether it would be classed as a distance contract or not.

On one hand we know OP ordered while in store, but not whether it was exclusively using distance communications or whether they perhaps discussed it with a staff member first.

It would all depend on the above and the interpretation of "simultaneous presence of the trader and consumer" given the definition of distance contract doesn't specify it has to be in a place that isn't the business premises of the trader.

I don't think its as simple as being in the shop = simultaneous presence because the shop isn't the trader, its just the trading premises (and you'd then open up the can of worms on situations such as ordering on your mobile while in/just outside the shop).

askmeaboutsofas

I don't think its as simple as being in the shop = simultaneous presence because the shop isn't the trader, its just the trading premises (and you'd then open up the can of worms on situations such as ordering on your mobile while in/just outside the shop).

[STRIKE]I have had this conversation with a solicitor a while back, it is that simple. If you have had the opportunity to inspect the goods in person, by visiting a shop where the goods that you wish to order are on display, it is not a distance sale. It doesn't matter if you stand just outside the shop doors and purchase on your phone, if you have been inside the shop where the goods were on display then it isn't a distance sale.[/STRIKE]
EDIT: So as it turns out my advice was out of date, I've just left this here so the conversation still makes sense sorry!



I should add, all sales through a company's website are covered by the website terms and conditions, and if those ts and cs don't differentiate between in store and online then you would have whatever rights they grant you. But if Laura Ashley are offering online order points inside the shop they have probably already thought of this.


All that really matters in this case is whether the chair not being as OP expected means that it's different to what they ordered. If it is, they should be able to cancel. If it's exactly as ordered, they're reliant on Laura Ashley's goodwill.

unholyangel

askmeaboutsofas wrote: »

I have had this conversation with a solicitor a while back, it is that simple. If you have had the opportunity to inspect the goods in person, by visiting a shop where the goods that you wish to order are on display, it is not a distance sale. It doesn't matter if you stand just outside the shop doors and purchase on your phone, if you have been inside the shop where the goods were on display then it isn't a distance sale.
I should add, all sales through a company's website are covered by the website terms and conditions, and if those ts and cs don't differentiate between in store and online then you would have whatever rights they grant you. But if Laura Ashley are offering online order points inside the shop they have probably already thought of this.


All that really matters in this case is whether the chair not being as OP expected means that it's different to what they ordered. If it is, they should be able to cancel. If it's exactly as ordered, they're reliant on Laura Ashley's goodwill.

You've just contradicted yourself though.

On one hand you say it is that simple, then you go on to say "if you have inspected the goods in person" - which means its not as simple as just being in the shop. Its also entirely possible to have a on premises contract for goods that you have not had the opportunity to examine in person. The only time something similar is mentioned by the regulations is with respect to public auctions.


What if you walk by a shop and see goods on display in the window? Does that then mean that if you go home and order them online that it wouldn't be a distance sale?

Although you do raise an additional point. Is Laura Ashleys online store the same entity as the physical store? Some businesses have them separated so even if you viewed in store and spoke to a employee about the contract, it would still be a distance sale.

askmeaboutsofas

What I went on to say was " If you have had the opportunity to inspect the goods in person, by visiting a shop where the goods that you wish to order are on display, it is not a distance sale."
Key words there are "If you have had the opportunity". If you go inside the shop where the goods are on display and you could have inspected them, it's not a distance sale. It's not about whether you actually did inspect them, only that you had the opportunity to do so.
As my solicitor said it to me, the purpose of the legislation is to make sure that customers who buy online are not put at a disadvantage compared to people buying in store.

[EDIT] - the above is pretty much irrelevant as the legislation has changed

For op's purposes the main question is whether the goods match what was ordered, not just in terms of "xyz model in abc fabric with feather fill cushions and castor feet" but also slightly harder to prove things like the quality of the finish.



I still don't think it's at all complicated, and I can't see where I contradicted myself. If you want to continue the conversation I'm happy to, but we should probably take this to PMs, we're just cluttering up the thread at this point.

George_Michael

The actual legislation (The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013) doesn't make any mention whatsoever of inspecting the goods making a difference as to whether it's a distance sale or not.

The definition of "distance contract" used in the legislation is:

means a contract concluded between a trader and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service-provision scheme without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer, with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded;

askmeaboutsofas

Thanks George, I think the law may have changed since I had that conversation with my solicitor as that was how he explained it to me. From your quote it reads that it only counts as a distance sale if the customer exclusively communicates at a distance, although that looks as if it would have the same outcome for the OP? If you're inside the shop talking to somebody you've just nixed the distance sale aspect, as you're no longer communicating exclusively at a distance. It seems odd to me though, that it no longer depends on having the opportunity to inspect the goods, as surely that would be more relevant than whether you spoke to the trader in person or over the phone. Of course no one ever accused our lawmakers of being sensible...
I'll add an edit to my previous posts. Don't want anyone using my outdated advice!

George_Michael

askmeaboutsofas wrote: »

Thanks George, I think the law may have changed since I had that conversation with my solicitor as that was how he explained it to me.

The law may well have changed since your conversation but the definition of a distance contract hasn't. The viewing or not of the goods concerned has never been relevant in determining if it's a distance contract.

Before the Consumer contracts regulations came into force, it was the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 that applied and the definition of a distance contract under that legislation was:

any contract concerning goods or services concluded between a supplier and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service provision scheme run by the supplier who, for the purpose of the contract, makes exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the moment at which the contract is concluded;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2334/regulation/3/made