PCN Vehicle Lease Company

KDBJL

Hi All

I wonder if you can help. I have read the newbies thread but i'm getting a bit confused as to what to put on the initial appeal. I work for a company and the PCN is used to that company for a company car hired through a lease company. The lease company have passed on our details as the hirer and the PCN has then been issued to us. I can see first appeal options on the newbie thread but i'm unsure which one applies to us as i'm not sure if they have not complied with POFA (as is the case on the ABC Ltd appeal thread). Also, to confuse matters our company has changed names and so the PCN is issued in our old company name (as that was the name on the lease when taken out). The PCN we have received says the following:
To Whom it may concern
We have issued PCN XXXXXX to a vehicle you have been named as hiring because it was parked in a manner whereby the driver became liable for a parking charge at XXXXXXXXXXXXX that we are authorised to manage on 9th February 2019 at 14.24. The terms and conditions of parking on this private land are clearly set out on the signage installed within the car park. By parking within this car park the driver is bound to these terms and conditions.
A discounted charge of £55 applies if this PCN is paid within 14 days of issue. If you choose to not pay at this amount, the full value of £95 will be due.
We have received your details following a transfer of liability naming you as the hirer of the vehicle at the time of the contravention. The reason we issued the PCN to the vehicle is as follows: Failure to Pay for the Duration of Stay.
The period of parking to which this notice relates is the period between and 14.24 09/02/2019, the charge having been incurred for the reason stated above.
We, the Creditor, now request this amount is paid using one of the payment methods described overleaf. You are advised that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which this notice is given - the amount of the unpaid parking charge specified in this notice has not been paid in full, we will have the right to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the driver of the vehicle.

I note that the period of stay is incomplete and so I have something to appeal to POPLA on, but just wondering what I should say on my initial email to the parking company. Also, is there an issue with the change of company name?
The date the PCN was issued to us is 11/03/2019.
Thanks in advance for your help.

Redx

read and follow the edna basher advice at the BOTTOM of post #1 , not the blue text


appeal as hirer/lessee/keeper (day to day keeper)


I dont think the change of name is relevant because it was relevant at the time they obtained the details from the hire co, so somebody at your firm must deal with old invoices unless it all died with the death of the old company ?


so as I say, its the edna basher type advice you follow, for hire vehicles, and the parts of POFA that apply to hire vehicles and their hirers

KDBJL

Thank you for coming back to me, so just to check, below is my draft email:

Dear Sirs

Parking Charge Notice Ref. XXXXXXXXXX: Vehicle Registration: XXXXX

We are in receipt of the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice ("PCN") dated 11th March 2019 and issued by XXXXXX to our Company (“XXXXXXX") in respect of an unpaid parking charge allegedly incurred at XXXXXXXXXXXXXX on 9th February 2019.

XXXXXXX is the vehicle's hirer and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA") and we write to dispute this PCN.

Although the PCN states the reason for issue as "Failure to Pay for the Duration of Stay", it provides no evidence to support this claim. In the absence of any conclusive evidence in support of the alleged breach, we trust you will agree that it would be unreasonable for XXXXXXXXXXXX to expect us to pay this charge.

Notwithstanding this, the PCN failed to comply with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA and consequently XXXXXX Ltd has forfeited any right to claim unpaid parking charges from XXXXXXX as the vehicle's hirer and keeper.

Within 28 days please provide us with written confirmation of XXXXX's acceptance that it cannot and does not hold XXXXXXXX liable for this parking charge and that this is now purely a matter between XXXXXXXXXX and the driver.

Thank you for your cooperation and we look forward to receiving this confirmation.

Yours faithfully

Redx

it appears that you adapted this one as a "fleet manager"

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5881338/pcn-for-lease-car-vehicle

so yes , as long as it is factually correct, then submit it

KDBJL

Yes I think that is the case here as the PCN is addressed to the company and we are replying rather than a specific person being named as the registered keeper of the vehicle and they reply.

KDBJL

Me again,

So we have received an email rejecting the appeal and so I am now looking to appeal to POPLA. I'm thinking this is the basis for appeal:
1. Operator not shown that we are liable for the charge - not sure how to word this though as when I look at the newbee thread there are examples but they all refer to the 'registered keeper' do I just amend to say 'hirer'?
2. No evidence of Period parked
3. Grace period
4. Signs not clear
5. No evidence of Landowner authority

Does that sound ok? Can someone clarify how I word the registered keeper bit? Are we considered the registered keeper because it's been passed to us by lease company?

Also, is there anything I can do re time they took to send to us? Incident was on 09/02/19, notice issued 11/03/19. I read somewhere on here about them providing evidence that the lease company had all the correct docs within time frame? Can someone point me in the right direction of wording re this?

Thanks again

Coupon-mad

Operator not shown that we are liable for the charge - not sure how to word this though as when I look at the newbee thread there are examples but they all refer to the 'registered keeper' do I just amend to say 'hirer'?

Search the forum for a hirer paragraph 13 POPLA appeal done earlier!

KDBJL

Thank you coupon mad, i've drafted up a letter on company letter head appealing to POPLA.

Just one more question, I was going to put in grace period not adhered to but I note that the two photos provided are date stamped 11 minutes apart, just over the minimum stated 10 mins, do you think I should remove it?

Edna_Basher

Check out Sketch's thread here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5963869/ecp-pcn-hire-lease-car-popla-appeal

You'll get some good tips on wording for a company "appealing" to POPLA - including how you need to beware of dodgy advice given to POPLA's assessors by their so-called "sector expert".

KDBJL

Thanks Edna i've used that template, will remove the bit about grace period.
Thanks for all your help guys, i'll let you know how we get on.

KDBJL

Hi guys, i've had a response from POPLA providing evidence that has been submitted by the parking company which includes a copy of the contract with the landowner. I've been given 7 days to comment on the evidence. Do I need to make any comments?