Council Tax question

CIS

Steve_xx wrote: »

My Aunt has Dementia and she resides with her daughter and two adult grandsons. One of the grandsons is registered as the carer. Though in fact, all three care for her.

For Council Tax I think they get a reduction of 25% because of Aunts dementia.

But, I was wondering if it would be possible for them to get a 50% reduction in their Council Tax by having the council recognise that Auntie and the three adults, ie daughter and two grandsons are 'disregarded' for Council Tax purposes due to their roles as carers?

Does anyone understand how all this works?

If there are 4 adults and only 2 are currently disregarded then no 25% / 50% discount would apply. To get a 25% discount there can only be 1 resident adult who is not disregarded, for the 50% then all resident adults need to be disregard,

Tigsteroonie

In accepting that a disabled person may have more than one carer (on the basis of 35hrs vs. 158hrs) they would be directly contradicting the DWP who will only pay Carers Allowance to one person, regardless of how many people are actually providing round-the-clock care.

So I'd say that you can ask the council but I wouldn't hold out much hope. I'd agree that I think the clause refers to there being two or more carers of two or more disabled people.

I, too, question how there is any discount given that there are two employed people in the house.

Steve_xx

calcotti wrote: »

There may be more than one carer in a property however I still think it unlikely that more than one person will be accepted as a carer for the same person. I think the text envisages Carer’s who are caring for different people. That would be consistent with all other benefits.

Yes, the text may well infer as you say.

Steve_xx

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

In accepting that a disabled person may have more than one carer (on the basis of 35hrs vs. 158hrs) they would be directly contradicting the DWP who will only pay Carers Allowance to one person, regardless of how many people are actually providing round-the-clock care.

So I'd say that you can ask the council but I wouldn't hold out much hope. I'd agree that I think the clause refers to there being two or more carers of two or more disabled people.

I, too, question how there is any discount given that there are two employed people in the house.

Yes I see your point in that only one carers allowance would be paid no matter how many people were looking after one person.

It may be worthwhile in asking the council. I think it raises an interesting question due to the lack of published text on the issue I've raised. Not to mention the fact that the Carers UK website does seem to imply that in some way that two carer people in the one property could be disregarded.

I also understand what you feel about them getting discount anyway, as two occupants are working. I think that this discount is applied to them under the following rules:

Council Tax disability reduction scheme
If there is a room or other extra space in your property that is needed by a disabled occupant, the disabled band reduction scheme may help you to get a reduction in your Council Tax.

If you meet the eligibility criteria below, the bill for your home will be reduced to the next lowest band. If you are already in the lowest band property (A), your bill will be reduced by one ninth.

Eligibility criteria
You are eligible for this discount if you or someone living in your home is substantially and permanently disabled and one of the following apply. You or they have:

a room (other than a bathroom, kitchen or toilet) which is used to store medical equipment to meet your needs.
a second purpose built bathroom or kitchen specifically to meet your needs.
adapted the property to accommodate a wheelchair indoors.
We will inspect your property as part of the application process.

Steve_xx

CIS wrote: »

If there are 4 adults and only 2 are currently disregarded then no 25% / 50% discount would apply. To get a 25% discount there can only be 1 resident adult who is not disregarded, for the 50% then all resident adults need to be disregard,

Indeed. This is what makes me wonder if, as carers, they may all be disregarded and so obtain a 50% reduction. In which case they would be substantially better off than taking the current reduction which I believe is applied under the Council Tax disability Reduction Scheme which effectively shifts them one council tax band lower.

MaggBB

I had a sad situation with taxes for a long time due to the fact that I simply did not understand some sub-clauses. After that, I definitely decided that in questions about I definitely need the help of specialists.

Steve_xx

CIS wrote: »

Within council tax legislation there is nothing to prevent multiple carers for one individual - providing the relevant criteria met. The legislation is open enough to recognise a person may need multiple carers.

The hours criteria is only 35 hrs per week, minimum - there are 168 hrs in a week, so 4 people in a property could each take turns and the hrs requirement could still be met.


One issue that I see regularly, and have to dispute for clients far too often, are local authorities who make their own rules. Hopefully it'll not come to that. If they meet the requirements I would suggest making the application. If they refuse then it can be taken to a tribunal.

I take your points.

They do all provide care for auntie. As do other members of the family who don't live there.

In your second paragraph I note your mention of number of hours in a week and that they would easily satisfy that. But could it be the case that two people might be required simultaneously at times, ie to get auntie into and out of bed for example, and that as such there could be overlap of the hours care was provided, ie the hourly care provided might be simultaneous at times, rather than concurrent? I know that they satisfy that particular criteria anyway because of your mention of hours provided by them v hours in a week. But I guess I'm being devils advocate here.

Your third paragraph is perhaps the most difficult and I feel that you are absolutely spot on in your mention of councils making their own rules, or interpreting the rules incorrectly. I feel, given what you have said here, that these people are probably entitled to all be disregarded as carers for auntie and so obtain a 50% reduction. But I fear that the local authority may not interpret this in the way that it perhaps ought to be.

CIS

...and that as such there could be overlap of the hours care was provided, ie the hourly care provided might be simultaneous at times, rather than concurrent

Yes

Your third paragraph is perhaps the most difficult and I feel that you are absolutely spot on in your mention of councils making their own rules, or interpreting the rules incorrectly. I feel, given what you have said here, that these people are probably entitled to all be disregarded as carers for auntie and so obtain a 50% reduction. But I fear that the local authority may not interpret this in the way that it perhaps ought to be.

I spend all day dealing with council tax disputes and some councils do require a lot of arguing to get the point across - some are very good though (If there was no disagreement I'd not have a job !). The legislation is very straightforward in terms of what it requires and the council cannot introduce extra criteria or interpretation. If they decline an application then there is the valuation tribunal but in many cases, providing the initial issues are well considered, it can be sorted without the need for one.

Indeed. This is what makes me wonder if, as carers, they may all be disregarded and so obtain a 50% reduction. In which case they would be substantially better off than taking the current reduction which I believe is applied under the Council Tax disability Reduction Scheme which effectively shifts them one council tax band lower.

The band reduction is in addition to any discount.

CIS

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

In accepting that a disabled person may have more than one carer (on the basis of 35hrs vs. 158hrs) they would be directly contradicting the DWP who will only pay Carers Allowance to one person, regardless of how many people are actually providing round-the-clock care.

So I'd say that you can ask the council but I wouldn't hold out much hope. I'd agree that I think the clause refers to there being two or more carers of two or more disabled people.

I, too, question how there is any discount given that there are two employed people in the house.

What DWP think is immaterial - the only issues open for consideration is what council tax legislation states. The relevant legislation places no hard limit on the number of carers providing the qualifying criteria are met.

Council Tax is often different to what other legislation, for their own purposes, would decide (for example, the definition of a HMO for council tax is different to the definition used for the Housing Act). Each piece of legislation is working with it's own specific area.

calcotti

CIS, thanks for pitching in on this one. Will be interesting to hear how OP gets on.