EXCEL paid tariff but did not issue ticket

Coupon-mad

No they can't disclose anything from the parking firm.

You can send a SAR for your own data and any payment recorded against your car, but not for general records like a cash excess from the machine. Not as part of a SAR.

But you CAN ask for that evidence to be produced at court, in your WS. The Judge might not buy it but you can try putting the claimant to proof of that issue.

Keith_S

I now have their bundle so I can prepare my WS properly. I'd appreciate any advice.

Unfortunately I go on holiday on Tuesday and return the day after I have to submit my bundle. I have a court date of 26th June and the bundle is supposed to be sent at least 14 days prior, but I don't get back til the 12th. Will it cause a problem if I were to post it on the 12th? I did notify the court of my holiday, otherwise I have just 3 days to complete my bundle.

I submitted a one page concise defense (thanks Bargepole). Here's a link to that -
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hi89xr77x9x45ij/Defence.pdf?dl=0

EXCEL PARKING submitted a 60 page bundle with a 13 page witness statement. Here's a link to their WS (which is almost word for word taken from Vine vs Waltham forest LBC) -
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1upqyi2tkx3h86/Excel%20WS%20redacted.pdf?dl=0

I am up against their paralegal Thanvirul Hoque who has been employed since Nov 2018 - does a paralegal have right of audience?

They are using
A leaseholder witness statement which is drawn up by themselves - https://www.dropbox.com/s/frbe0qpgdc806id/Leaseholder%20WS.pdf?dl=0

Thornton vs Shoe Lane Parking 1971 2 QB 163
- the sign was an offer and the act of parking was the acceptance

Vine vs Waltham Forest LBC (2002) 1 WLR 2383, 2390
- once it is established that sufficient and adequate warning notices were in place, a car driver cannot be heard to say that he or she did not see the notice.

ParkingEye vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67
- ...a contract exists between the motorist and operator...

I'm sure all three of those can be turned in my favour.

A whole page about POFA followed, but as I admitted being the driver this should not have come up. Thats's the nature of templates.

They have evidenced 2 signs that are different for the same car park, this just confuses the issue of pay or pay and display
SIGN 1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/08yxvawu13u39ww/Sign%201.pdf?dl=0
SIGN 2 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/mozgd4r7s0gneq0/Sign%202.pdf?dl=0

KeithP

None of those dropbox links work for me.

I get a message like The folder ‘/Sign 1.pdf’ doesn’t exist. for each one.

Perhaps you need to make the files publicly viewable.

Keith_S

Try the links now - first time I've used dropbox sorry
Dropbox redone and new links shared

KeithP

Yes they now work.

The worrying thing is that you have signed up to dropbox using your real name. :eek:

suggest you re-signup to dropbox using a truly anonymous username.


Also, now having seen your full name, you would be wise to change your MSE forum username to something anonymous - and different to your dropbox username.

To help with that, you might like to read this short extract from The MSE Forum Guide - Frequently Asked Questions & Rules:

Q. How can I change my username?

A. In most circumstances, this is not permitted.

The only reason we will change your username is if it puts your privacy at risk. This usually means you've inadvertently registered using your name, email address or something that gives away your identity within your username.

If you fall into this category, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com and request that it is changed, giving three alternative usernames in order of preference.

Coupon-mad

Thanvirul Hoque doesn't go to hearings, and nor is he/she a true witness, so you can object to his/her absence and the fact they have never been to the car park in question and are not a witness at all and have used a template (probably riddled with errors?).

Have they accused you of plagiarism like they did to another poster (he won)?

We can look closely at this over the weekend and you can post it or take a ring binder file to the court in person, on Monday (and email to the Claimant, no wasting a stamp).

Keith_S

[Thanvirul Hoque doesn't go to hearings]. CM - I am amazed that you know this, but that makes me feel a whole lot more confident. Thanks, I look forward to your advice

Snakes_Belly

Thanvirul Hoque He signed my WS and I also had a WS from a company official which stated that they were the leaseholder. Personally I don't think that it was worth the paper that it was written on but matter did not arise in my case.

Thornton vs Shoe Lane Parking 1971 2 QB 163
- the sign was an offer and the act of parking was the acceptance

Vine vs Waltham Forest LBC (2002) 1 WLR 2383, 2390
- once it is established that sufficient and adequate warning notices were in place, a car driver cannot be heard to say that he or she did not see the notice.

ParkingEye vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67
- ...a contract exists between the motorist and operator.

On my thread there are details about those cases. Miss Vine actually won her case on appeal. Shoe lane was a barrier car park and it is possible to argue that Beavis does not apply to a paid car park Cargius case on Pranksters website.

They will also quote a case in relation to adding on the £60.00. See my thread.

Judge in my hearing seemed to like the Jolley case. There is no transcript but there is a very relevant quote from it.

Note they will say that you should evidence that the machine was not working and that you have paid. It is down to them to evidence that the machine was working. In my case they did not provide any.

Keith_S

I just noticed that "sign 2" that I posted earlier (that they supplied as evidence of signage) does not exist in their car park. Very confusing.

Coupon-mad

There is a transcript for Jolley v Carmel as IamEmanresu used to have a link to it, although he no longer posts here. I can only find it here (you have to sign in):

https://app.justis.com/case/leslie-ambrose-jolley-v-carmel-ltd/overview/c3ydn0qtnXWca

Keith_S wrote: »

I just noticed that "sign 2" that I posted earlier (that they supplied as evidence of signage) does not exist in their car park. Very confusing.

That's typical! Just the sort of thing you need to counter with evidence to the contrary!

Have a look at Lop5's thread for an example of a blow by blow demolition of a PPC WS.

And, try searching for this as keywords (change to 'show results as POSTS' not as threads):

Roch Vine

Pretty sure you will find some very similar template VCS or Excel WS torn apart.