PIP Appeal advice please...

Actiongirl1

Good afternoon.
Last week we received the letter to inform us our 16 year old has just been awarded enhanced mobility PIP for following the route of a journey. "you can't follow a familiar journey without another person, dog or orientation aid".
She scored 4 points for daily living (food prep and reading).

I don't think the decision is correct. We stressed on the forms and at her assessment that it was only unfamiliar journeys or in unlit areas, that she has difficulty with. She does sometimes have trouble adjusting to changing light.
But she can to walk to school/shops/local area alone without any issues. To says she can't do this without another person/aid seems wrong, and not what we said. She does take sunglasses/cap in case of changing light. But honestly, I feel she is only entitled to the lower amount. Her mobility report states that she copes well in familiar environments.

Secondly, I feel that if she is awarded points for reading then she should also be awarded points for
monitoring treatments because her medication comes with small print information. She also struggles to indentify shampoo/wash bottles when in the shower because not wearing specs. She must sit near front of class to indentify expressions (mixing with others or communicating possibly?)

I am well aware she could have her award removed if we ask for a reconsideration but I don't want her to feel like she can't go out alone. Or like we are being dishonest. I'm confused.

I will lose carers allowance which means working more, I'm concerned that she will get less support from me Yet if she, as they say, needs another person to follow a familiar route then who are they expecting that person to be if I'm no longer officially her carer and need to work more? Obviously I would, but losing the CA doesn't make sense.

Any advice?
And what are my first steps in asking for a reconsideration?

Fight4Justice

I would definitely recommend appealing. I had to go to Tribunal after my last 2 PIP Reassessments. Thankfully, I won both times at the Tribunal. But it was very stressful and inconvenient.

I would recommend reading the Govt web pg about Mandatory Reconsiderations (MRs), to get an overview of the process. It won't let me post a direct web pg link in my reply as I'm a new user... If you Google search the following it should be the first or second link: Challenge a benefit decision (mandatory reconsideration)

I would also recommend you lodge your MR in writing, as opposed to over the phone. Because it's inadvisable to put your faith in a DWP telephone adviser for something this important. There's an official MR Govt form you can fill out. It should be the first link if you Google search: Challenge a decision made by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP)

You can also attach/staple extra sheets of paper to the end of the MR form, as they don't give you much space in the text box fields. I would also recommend keeping a photocopy of the MR form you send. So you can have a record of what you wrote, to refer back to later.

Only 20% ish of MRs are successful. Be prepared to go all the way to a Tribunal, where 70% ish find in favour of the claimant.

I would STRONGLY recommend reading 2 guide's by mikehughescq:
For the first guide do a Google search for: PIP form filling. mikehughescq
For the second guide do a Google search for: Representation and tribunal hearings. mikehughescq

Finally, good luck with your appeal. I hope you get the outcome you're looking for.

P.S. I'm not sure if you need a guide for ESA? mikehughescq's guide for ESA is also excellent. For the guide do a Google search for: ESA medicals. mikehughescq

Actiongirl1

Thank you Fight4justice, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I will certainly look at those guides too.

Does anyone know if a Tribunal for PIP would mean the appointee must attend in person? Or is it like DLA where the court can make a decision in your absence?
Previously every DLA claim we've completed has been refused only to be awarded at Tribunal in our absence. It has always been a case of the decision maker failing to match the amount care to the correct rate, rather than us not providing enough evidence. In which case I'm thinking it wouldn't make any difference if we attended or not.

poppy12345

For the following and planning a journey then it does seem like she's been awarded incorrectly. Others may see this and give their thoughts.


For monitoring a health condition, she could score 1 point if she needs help/assistance or uses an aid for taking medication. To score more in the descriptor then she would need to be having therapy at home which has to be recommended by a health care professional. Not being able to read what's on the shampoo bottles won't score her any points here.



Communicating verbally, if she can speak and people can understand her and she can hear and understand them then she won't score any points for this descriptor.


Engaging with others. Does she need social support when engaging with others?
An inability to engage face-to-face must be due to the impact of impairment and not simply a matter of preference by the claimant.
Social support means support from another person trained or experienced in assisting people to engage in social situations, or someone directly experienced in supporting the claimant themselves (for example a family member or carer), who can compensate for limited ability to understand and respond to body language, other social cues and assist social integration.


Sitting at the front of the class would possibly not score her any points here.

This link may help you understand the descriptors more.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

Actiongirl1

poppy12345 wrote: »

For the following and planning a journey then it does seem like she's been awarded incorrectly. Others may see this and give their thoughts.


For monitoring a health condition, she could score 1 point if she needs help/assistance or uses an aid for taking medication. To score more in the descriptor then she would need to be having therapy at home which has to be recommended by a health care professional. Not being able to read what's on the shampoo bottles won't score her any points here.



Communicating verbally, if she can speak and people can understand her and she can hear and understand them then she won't score any points for this descriptor.


Engaging with others. Does she need social support when engaging with others?
An inability to engage face-to-face must be due to the impact of impairment and not simply a matter of preference by the claimant.
Social support means support from another person trained or experienced in assisting people to engage in social situations, or someone directly experienced in supporting the claimant themselves (for example a family member or carer), who can compensate for limited ability to understand and respond to body language, other social cues and assist social integration.


Sitting at the front of the class would possibly not score her any points here.

Thank you.
She said at her assessment that she doesn't always recognise people from across the street or see them waving/ gestures from across the street.
One of the reasons she sits near the front of the class is to observe the teachers expressions, this is in her plan. I don't think that fits into a descriptor but perhaps shows that she need help engaging.
Also she tends to miss areas cleaning her teeth so I check them and goes to hygienist more. Rooms must be well lit.
She is exhausted at the moment as school work is intense with exams coming up.

Alice_Holt

Do remember that the PIP descriptors are based on what the claimant can do reliably and safely. The assessor may have judged that the your daughter may have issues around safety when making any journey. Have you got a copy of the assessors report - what does it say? If not request it from the DWP before challenging the decision.

PIP is very different to DLA - there are specific activities to fit a PIP award around. With DLA it looked more generally at care and supervision. Does you daughter have difficulties other than with eyesight?

You need 8 points for a Daily Living award, help with taking medication will score 1 point. What other points could she score?
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

Dressing and undressing? - Could see cope with fastenings; can she tell if her clothes are clean?


Some resources to look at:
https://www.rnib.org.uk/personal-independence-payment-toolkit
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725533/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

I would strongly suggest you do take advice before challenging the decision.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/contact-us/contact-us/

Actiongirl1

Thank you Alice.

The assessor's report is on it's way.

She can dress herself but doesn't notice stains, she said this at the assessment.
I can't face going to a tribunal. I should be using my energy to support my daughter through her exams.

I will try CAB.

I provided a mountain of evidence from both. I was very thorough on filling the forms too.

Actiongirl1

For daily living activies

She definitely uses an aid for cooking, magnifier. She cannot reliably tell if meat is cooked, she doesn't always notice immediately if a pan boils over. Awarded 2 points. Should this be 4 points?

She has medication and prescribed cream to apply to face but can't see to do this without glasses on, also accompanying leaflet are small, relies in magnifier or myself to read or write large print simplified instructions on box. Awarded 0 points. Should this be 1 point?

Has coloured stickers on taps as font is too small, confuses bottles, struggles to see plaque on teeth. Awarded 0 points. Should this be 2 points? However I understand that mixing up wash bottles and not removing plaque isn't likely to cause significant harm.

Toilet needs are fine, only finding a toilet in public sometime an issue if unfamiliar, but I'm aware this isn't covered. 0 points

Can dress and undress unaided but fails to notice stains. 0 points

Communicating verbally, awarded 0 points. She is quite shy and doesn't tend to contribute to class, but I don't think that's VI related. So 0 points.

Reading signs symbols and words. Uses and aid or appliance, instructed to sit at front. awarded 2 points.

Engaging with others face to face. My daughter must sit near the font if class to view teachers expressions, doesn't reliably recognise someone from across the street. Awarded 0 points. Should this be 2 points?

Budgeting.needed training to use cash point but I accept that's 0 points as can use coins etc.

Alice_Holt

Actiongirl1 wrote: »

For daily living activies

She definitely uses an aid for cooking, magnifier. She cannot reliably tell if meat is cooked, she doesn't always notice immediately if a pan boils over. Awarded 2 points. Should this be 4 points?

She has medication and prescribed cream to apply to face but can't see to do this without glasses on, also accompanying leaflet are small, relies in magnifier or myself to read or write large print simplified instructions on box. Awarded 0 points. Should this be 1 point?

Has coloured stickers on taps as font is too small, confuses bottles, struggles to see plaque on teeth. Awarded 0 points. Should this be 2 points? However I understand that mixing up wash bottles and not removing plaque isn't likely to cause significant harm.

Toilet needs are fine, only finding a toilet in public sometime an issue if unfamiliar, but I'm aware this isn't covered. 0 points

Can dress and undress unaided but fails to notice stains. 0 points

Communicating verbally, awarded 0 points. She is quite shy and doesn't tend to contribute to class, but I don't think that's VI related. So 0 points.

Reading signs symbols and words. Uses and aid or appliance, instructed to sit at front. awarded 2 points.

Engaging with others face to face. My daughter must sit near the font if class to view teachers expressions, doesn't reliably recognise someone from across the street. Awarded 0 points. Should this be 2 points?

Budgeting.needed training to use cash point but I accept that's 0 points as can use coins etc.

My view:
4 points for cooking and preparing a meal as she needs supervision (as you have described) - she can't reliably do this activity safely and to an acceptable standard (i.e knowing when food is properly cooked) without help. More than just needing an aid.
1 points for help with medication.
2 points for dressing as she can't tell if her clothes are clean (can't do this activity to an acceptable standard)
Possible 2 points for washing and bathing as needs an aid (or help) to distinguish between shampoo / etc bottles (and perhaps to do this activity safely).

Do look at the PIP assessment guide & RNIB links I posted above.

This is a very good guide to the appeal process:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

I think the Daily Living is worth appealing. I would suggest concentrating solely on the Daily Living component.

At MR stage you don't want to give the DWP the idea of reducing the Mobility award but leaving DL unchanged.
Most MR's do not change the decision.
MR template here:
https://www.leicester.gov.uk/media/178163/mandatory-reconsideration-request.pdf

The tribunal panel will look at the whole award in reviewing the DWP decision - so they will consider the Mobility component as a matter of course.

It is a reasonably straightforward process - just follow the appeal guide.
If you are your daughter's appointee - there is no reason for her to attend the tribunal.
If you can get help from your local advice agency / CAB so much the better.