PCN total parking solutions

KeithP

At first glance that does seem rather short for a PoPLA appeal.

And frankly, it doesn't look like a winning appeal to me.

Have you read any of the example PoPLA appeals linked from post #3 of the NEWBIES thread?

Coupon-mad

That isn't written in anything like the style of POPLA appeal points shown in the NEWBIES thread. They are in the 3rd post of that sticky, for people to copy. People do this every day and no-one here writes their own version of a losing POPLA appeal.

''I did this, then I did that'' is maybe 90% likely to lose, IMHO. No hope with that.

Gregous

Sorry I about this but I am just gradually preparing a more extensive POPLA appeal.
But please can someone tell me, if its against the rules of parking in a Total parking solutions car parks to designate someone else to drive the vehicle? and if not would it be breaking their terms if driver 1 leaves the site even though the designated driver is still on their premises?

Many thanks

Gregous

Hi Coupon-mad, KeithP, Guys Dad
Please could you have a look at the updated version with pictures attached (I hope). THANK YOU.

POPLA APPEAL NO: XXXXXXX Registered Keeper xxxxx
Dear Sir / Madam
I am appealing against Parking Charge Number xxxxxx because I believe that I have reasonable grounds to prove that I have done nothing to break Total Parking Solutions terms and conditions as recorded on the parking charge.
OVERVIEW OF EVENTS
The driver 1 of vehicle xxxx entered the carpark at around 1535hrs on 08 March 2019 with his young child and parked the car within a dedicated parking space.
The driver 1 met with driver 2 who was with his other young child outside Halfords within Northfield Retail Park, Kettering. Their goal was to find prices for a bicycle part.
On meeting up both children started arguing because they wanted sweets from Poundstretcher (a shop also within the retail park), we were in plain view of everyone outside the shop because after 2 or 3 minutes the kids were screaming.
Driver 1 didn’t have his wallet and driver 2 only had a basic bank card with no chip and pin facility.
Driver 1 then designated driver 2 as driver of the above vehicle, gave driver 2 the keys and ran to the bank to get money with driver 2’s bank card, at all times the designated driver of the vehicle (driver 2) stayed within the retail park. On his return both persons went into Poundstretcher and purchased sweets for the children. They both then visited Halfords to achieve their main goal. Both drivers and children then returned back to the above vehicle and drove out of the retail park.

MY APPEAL
Total Parking Solutions Ltd carpark signs at Northfield retail park is inadequate and illegible in a number of ways, not least because of the sheer amount of text that must be read (see Figure 1 on page 2).
BPA Code of Practice also states:
Signs must be in plain and intelligible language, and:
A) Tell drivers that unauthorised parking is not permitted.
Say what the conditions are to use the site.
C) Give the circumstances under which vehicles will be immobilised or removed.
D) Give the times during which vehicles will be immobilised or removed.
E) Be placed at the entrance to the site, and there must be enough signs placed in other locations throughout British Parking Association Code of Practice.
12 the site so that drivers are given the chance to be aware of the risk involved at the time of parking or leaving the vehicle.
F) Be at least 450mm x 450mm in size.
G) Say that the land is private property and is managed by the operator.
H) Say how to retrieve a vehicle or get it released.
I) Give the fee for release, retrieval or storage.
J) Give a phone number (premium-rate lines should not be used) where enquiries may be made.
K) Give the registered company name of the operator and, if the operator is using a trading name other than its registered company name, a geographical address where documents can be served.
To help motorists understand signs it is strongly advised that you use pictograms or symbols, for example images of a wheel clamp, a removal truck, camera and so on.
Looking at figure 1 on page 2 Total Parking Solutions Ltd have broken the BPA Code of Practice relating to signage A8.2.


Figure 1. A picture taken of one of the parking signs at Northfield Retail Park.

Here the signs are crowded and cluttered with a lack of white space as a background. It is indisputable that placing letters too close together in order to fit more information into a smaller space can drastically reduce the legibility of a sign, especially one which must be read before the action of parking and leaving the car


Figure 2 Beavis sign
This case, by comparison, does not demonstrate an example of the 'large lettering' and 'prominent signage' that impressed the Supreme Court Judges and swayed them into deciding that in the specific car park in the Beavis case alone, a contract and ‘agreement on the charge’ existed.

Nothing states on the sign (figure 1 page 2) that the driver cannot designate another driver to drive the said vehicle if they’re legally permitted to drive it. Where it states “Do not leave the premises at any time whilst your vehicle is parked in this carpark”. The designated 2nd driver (driver 2) of said vehicle didn’t leave the premises at any time.
At no time does The Highway Code state that: The Keeper / Main driver of the vehicle cannot designate another driver for said vehicle, so in my observation of the Highway Code convinces me that any person driving said vehicle must meet the following criteria:
A) The driver must have a valid driving licence.
The driver must gain permission from the keeper of the vehicle to drive said vehicle.
C) The driver must be fully insured to drive said vehicle.
The Law states:
Driving licence. You MUST have a valid driving licence for the category of motor vehicle you are driving. You MUST inform the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) if you change your name and/or address.
Law RTA 1988 sects 87 & 99(4)
Insurance. To use a motor vehicle on the road, you MUST have a valid insurance policy.
This MUST at least cover you for injury or damage to a third party while using that motor vehicle. Before driving any motor vehicle, make sure that it has this cover for your use or that your own insurance provides adequate cover. You MUST NOT drive a motor vehicle without insurance. Also, be aware that even if a road traffic incident is not your fault, you may still be held liable by insurance companies.
Law RTA 1988 sect 143

BPA Terms and conditions state:
20.5a when issuing a parking charge notice you may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered.
Please can Total Parking Solutions Ltd show any pictures of the driver 1 and designated driver (driver 2) of said vehicle leaving the premises?

The receipt Shown below from the date and time in question, from where the driver and designated driver brought the kids sweets during our visit at the retail park in question:

KeithP

You would be wise to remove all unique identifying marks from your post.

E.g. your Parking Charge Number.

Coupon-mad

Eeek! Don't hand them this admission of the PARKING driver, leaving:

OVERVIEW OF EVENTS
The driver 1 of vehicle xxxx entered the carpark at around 1535hrs on 08 March 2019 with his young child and parked the car within a dedicated parking space.
The driver 1 met with driver 2 who was with his other young child outside Halfords within Northfield Retail Park, Kettering. Their goal was to find prices for a bicycle part.
On meeting up both children started arguing because they wanted sweets from Poundstretcher (a shop also within the retail park), we were in plain view of everyone outside the shop because after 2 or 3 minutes the kids were screaming.
Driver 1 didn’t have his wallet and driver 2 only had a basic bank card with no chip and pin facility.
Driver 1 then designated driver 2 as driver of the above vehicle, gave driver 2 the keys and ran to the bank to get money with driver 2’s bank card, at all times the designated driver of the vehicle (driver 2) stayed within the retail park. On his return both persons went into Poundstretcher and purchased sweets for the children. They both then visited Halfords to achieve their main goal. Both drivers and children then returned back to the above vehicle and drove out of the retail park.

I hope you didn't give them that admission in the first appeal?

Quite the contrary - your main point should be saying that the driver DID NOT leave the site (do not identify or talk about which driver) and put TPS to 'strict proof'.

Mere photos of a person walking somewhere is never evidence of who parked the car, or where they went, or where the other occupants of the car were (attach as well for POPLA, proof of any spends, as compelling evidence that the party in the car DID shop there).

They won't be able to, if this PCN is for leaving the site (is it?).

Gregous

I did give that admission in the first appeal because I didn't know about this forum. And that's why when I read Newbies I still didn't know what to do about it. My balls up

Coupon-mad

Muddy the waters then by saying there were two drivers on site and DO NOT admit who left the site - adapt my wording. I hope you didn't write ''I left the site''?

Gregous

Hi coupon mad, I wrote this in my first appeal:

I arrived on the retail park in the vehicle registration number xxxxx and parked in a designated parking space within the retail park with my daughter 4 ½ years old. We walked 20 metres and met my ex-girlfriend who was with my son 3 years old outside Halfords (situated within the same retail park) we were there to get a price for a part for my road bike. Before entering Halfords the kids started arguing because they wanted sweets, the only place open to get them was Poundstretcher two doors away but within the same retail park. I didn’t have my wallet with me and my ex only has a basic bank card with no chip and pin so we decided that it was easier and faster if I took her card and ran to the bank to get money out. But before leaving the site to run to the bank to get cash I had designated my ex as the driver for the vehicle and gave her the keys, she is a fully qualified and insured driver for my vehicle, who stayed within the retail park for the full duration of my absence.
On my return 10-15 minutes later we went into Poundstretcher brought the sweets and popped into Halfords to look for the required component. The employee of Halfords gave me the price of the component and we left, we all got into my car and that’s when I found the parking charge notice.

I now know after reading Newbies that it puts me in a predicament, and that's why I'm asking for help mate.

On the sign it states that "Do not leave the premises at anytime whilst your vehicle is parked in this carpark. Inspections are regularly carried out." It doesn't state who isn't to leave the site (driver or designated driver) I don't know if that could help me in anyway?

Coupon-mad

I'd state that there were two drivers and she had the keys, and stayed on site, etc.

This is a mess, never do that again!