How can the law assume we've entered contracts, assume we see signs?

infocom

I have lost an appeal with Popla, but rather than go on about the specifics of the case here as I am sure mine is very common, I wanted to know how its possible that the legal system can just say we have entered contracts without any evidence of us doing so? They say there are signs up so you have entered a contract, but if someone has not seen any signs, how can the law make you be in that contract? Shouldn't parking eye provide evidence that I have seen the signs?

I dont think it acceptable to force someone to be in a contract on the basis of some signs.

I never saw any signs so I am very very frustrated at the moment because I cant see what I could have done to avoid this situation, not having any idea there are time limits in service stations (I thought service stations were free, which is the whole point to encourage drivers to stop, take a break, have lunch whatever). I feel like like an innocent person found guilty of a crime and there is nothing I can do now other than just go to court and say I have not entered a contract. I will probably lose and be told there are signs so I entered a contract, but I just dont understand how the law can force me into a contract without my agreement. I cant be the only one that didn't see the signs, so in order to ensure all the guilty pay up, the innocent are forced to too. So basically everyone is assumed guilty unless proven innocent. Doesn't sound right to me.

Now if there were barriers to enter and leave like some private car parks, maybe get a ticket, its a different matter, I would obviously have seen the barrier to get past it! But with no barrier and just a sign by the side of the road, how can the law assume I have seen it and entered a contract?

Thats the only argument I have. Parking Eye are basically making an assumption that I saw signs, and if I fail then I feel like the law is calling me a liar. Saying there are signs just implies 100% of people see them and if you say you didnt you are a liar. So I dont understand how the law can say that without evidence I saw the signs.

Thanks

onlyfoolsandparking

I think I can speak for many on here (especially the regulars) in saying we understand exactly how you feel, unfortunately that's the way it is until (hopefully soon) the new Parking law/s comes into force.


Its not over just because you lost at POPLA, that is just one part of the process in defending yourself against these nasty scammers.


You still have choices and the more you read on here the better understanding you will gain about how and what you should/could do.


The Law only deals with Legalities and its all about PROOF, Parking Lie are assuming you have read the signs and agreed to their contractual terms, you have to PROVE their signs are inadequate plus a whole host of other things they have done wrong. Then you get your day in Court and hopefully the Judge gives more weight to your evidence/proof than the scammers, case dismissed.


I'm making it sound simple and it is from what processes you have to go through but can be quite difficult if you attach emotion to it all, have a good read around the forum and see if that gives you any help in making a decision to either fight or pay (none of us EVER recommend paying though!!)

twhitehousescat

signs should also be written in brail , i shout DISCRIMINATION!!

beamerguy

That's how it is, by entering on private land, you are deemed to have read the signs and agreed to a contract by parking.

There are of course many private car parks where signs cannot be easily seen, hidden by bushes etc etc, that a contract falls into doubt

In your case you need to prove there was no contract

The_Deep

I wanted to know how its possible that the legal system can just say we have entered contracts without any evidence of us doing so?

The legal system has done no such thing. PoPLA is a trade organisation, just as is SMMT, or the Milk Marketing Board (as was). Complain to your MP.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem become so widespread that MPs agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Hopefully, this will become law by Easter .

Dean000000

Because....

The alternative is having a manned station, getting you to sign a contract stating you can park here for x amount of money for x amount of time.

The cost of that service would have to be included in any parking charge - meaning your £1.20/hr would rise to £15.20/hr....

They are offing a use of a commodity / asset for an amount of money (their offer) and by parking you are accepting their terms of use of their asset. (Your acceptance)

I can’t see how why so many don’t see it the same as me? I really don’t

waamo

The system takes the standpoint that is signs are plentiful, well placed and clear to see then it is your responsibility to read them. It's not an unreasonable position to be fair.

If you can demonstrate the signs aren't clear, badly lit, not plentiful etc then you will win.

The_Deep

Indeed. read this thread.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-readinge

fisherjim

Dean000000 wrote: »

Because....

The alternative is having a manned station, getting you to sign a contract stating you can park here for x amount of money for x amount of time.

The cost of that service would have to be included in any parking charge - meaning your £1.20/hr would rise to £15.20/hr....

They are offing a use of a commodity / asset for an amount of money (their offer) and by parking you are accepting their terms of use of their asset. (Your acceptance)

I can’t see how why so many don’t see it the same as me? I really don’t

But it's not really like that is it?


Iif the signage is illegible, hidden, facing the wrong way, ambiguous, too small to read, missing etc. etc. !

onlyfoolsandparking

Dean000000 wrote: »

Because....

The alternative is having a manned station, getting you to sign a contract stating you can park here for x amount of money for x amount of time.

The cost of that service would have to be included in any parking charge - meaning your £1.20/hr would rise to £15.20/hr....

They are offing a use of a commodity / asset for an amount of money (their offer) and by parking you are accepting their terms of use of their asset. (Your acceptance)

I can’t see how why so many don’t see it the same as me? I really don’t

Not forgetting confusing signs, broken P&D machines, faulty ANPR equipment, multi-occupancy scammers at car parks, differing grace periods, flipped over tickets, NOT displaying a 'blue badge' when they are not 'Legal' on private land anyway???, worn out markings on parking bays and to top it off parking goons telling motorists they CAN park without worry and then issuing a ticket??


Are you really that naïve?

steve1500

onlyfoolsandparking wrote: »

Not forgetting confusing signs, broken P&D machines, faulty ANPR equipment, multi-occupancy scammers at car parks, differing grace periods, flipped over tickets, NOT displaying a 'blue badge' when they are not 'Legal' on private land anyway???, worn out markings on parking bays and to top it off parking goons telling motorists they CAN park without worry and then issuing a ticket??


Are you really that naïve?

Also obtaining information from the DVLA when not complying with the Data Protection Act .


I guess their defence would be, didn't realise we had to comply, bit like didn't realise we had to get planning permission for all our signs etc