No voice discrimination

gt94sss2

rogerlindley wrote: »

I appreciate that I'm not alone and hopefully it is only temporary. You don't appreciate how difficult it is until you can't speak.

I appreciate that they are legally required to offer a service under DDA.

As you say, banks should offer reasonable alternatives to comply with the Equality Act 2010 and it sounds as if First Direct do in offering a minicom service and if pushed, I suspect would say go to your local HSBC branch for assistance with certain things.

However, I would just add two things:

1. From the above, I suspect you may not qualify under the Act. This is actually good news, in that your voice should come back! But to be covered under the Equality Act, one of the qualifying criteria is that your disability needs to be expected to last 12 months or more (the "long-term adverse effect" that eskbanker mentioned)

2. It might not have been the best idea to transfer to a telephone bank until your voice recovers..

I hope you feel better soon.

elsien

If you're quoting legislation at companies then make sure you get the right one.
The DDA is no longer in force as it has been superceded by the Equality Act.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/duty-to-make-reasonable-adjustments-for-disabled-people/

eskbanker

elsien wrote: »

If you're quoting legislation at companies then make sure you get the right one.
The DDA is no longer in force as it has been superceded by the Equality Act.

....except in Northern Ireland (not that there's any indication that OP is there!)

gt94sss2

elsien wrote: »

If you're quoting legislation at companies then make sure you get the right one.
The DDA is no longer in force as it has been superceded by the Equality Act.

Old habits but yes, you're right its the Equality Act 2010 now.

fuzzything

I’m not going to judge if your condition is or is not a disability. But I would like to clarify the broadness giving a quote from The Equalities Act guidance that relates to a condition someone has had (or is likely to have) for over 12 months, that fluctuates (for example arthritis that only affects the person in winter could be classed as a disability even if only affects them part of the year as it has a significant impact when it does).

“Special provisions apply when determining whether the effects of an impairment that has fluctuating or recurring effects are long-term.”

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/570382/Equality_Act_2010-disability_definition.pdf

As others have said, First Direct do offer Minicom Text Telephone Number which is 03 456 100 147. This could well suffice for their duty under the equalities act in a scenario such as yours, without them needing to provide another method.

rogerlindley

If Virgin Media and other companies consider emails a security risk, how come they send my very detailed invoices via email. Surely they are putting at risk my security by 'publishing' my account number, account holder, full address, etc.
This is more a security risk than a simple request for a replacement SIM card for my MiFi or asking a technical question. They don't need to ask any questions, etc. of a security nature.
First Direct want to give me a security password over the phone but then send the card Pin number by post for security reasons.
These, and other companies, have no hesitation in using emails to sell you something but using a noreply email address.
There is no consistency.
For the past 10 years I had a successful international b2b digital magazine, with advertising from around the world and everything, including invoicing, Vat and similar returns were completed electronically. Current medical conditions has stopped me from publishing.
Uncertainty over Brexit also resulted in an almost completed sale failing due to forward advertising contracts put on hold by companies. Not a good year.

eskbanker

rogerlindley wrote: »

These, and other companies, have no hesitation in using emails to sell you something but using a noreply email address.
There is no consistency.

But that's the point - companies can control what they put into outbound emails and so can satisfy themselves that there's nothing there that they're unhappy with, when issuing marketing stuff, etc. However, by allowing inbound emails, customers can (unthinkingly) include information that shouldn't be shared except via more secure channels. Inbound email is also a channel that's heavily susceptible to spam, viruses and other undesirable content that's far more prevalent for high-profile publicly-visible domains than home users - of course there are counter measures available but these are typically not always 100% effective.

So to me it is consistent for companies to use email for some purposes but not others, although if you meant that it's inconsistent that some will communicate via email and others won't, then that's undoubtedly true, in the absence of any overarching regulation. You mention VAT returns being handled electronically but it would surprise me if this was actually entirely via email, as opposed to HMRC's secure online facility.

Anyway, what I was trying to get across was that it's up to any company to choose which communication channels they support and that customers can't insist on email, although as above there does need to be an alternative to telephony. First Direct are renowned for being a phone-oriented bank (it's what differentiated them when they started out) but even they must have options for their customers with speech or hearing impediments.

Have you actually used (or attempted to use) the Minicom and text relay services mentioned in previous posts?

rogerlindley

If they don't have the decency to reply to emails, that's their loss.

I have now got a new SIM card through another company. As it is for MiFi only a different number is no problem.
As for First Direct... I have completed opening a new account via email/online secured website (what I use for VAT, etc) with another more friendly bank.
If my loss of voice becomes permanent, I forsee many meetings with my MP who is very good with constituent MP.

eskbanker

Voting with your feet is always a good way of dealing with companies that you're unimpressed with, but I still get the feeling that you chose not to make use of the facilities they offer!

SlovakianGuy

Oh, I really hate when I ask a company for their email and they reply with "please call us on ....".

I avoid talking over the phone as often as possible. I don't mind talking face to face, but I really hate phone calls. Not sure if I have some problem but I don't understand people (even in my native language) as good as when speaking face to face. If it's in my second or third language, that's even worse. Some people even suffer from so-called telephonophobia. I'm not one of them, but I guess, I'm not too far from such phobia. I never pick up calls from numbers I don't know. It's 2019 so they can send me both SMS and email. I wonder if all these companies are not aware of this? Many people simply don't want to talk on the phone!

When I opened 5 new bank accounts, I was p*ssed off that I had to call Metro bank to activate my debit cards. No other options, just call.... And then all those security questions, omg. Same with setting up direct debit in Nationwide. If other companies allow to do everything online, why don't they do it too?


Yesterday, I had a call which I of course didn't answer. I received a voice message. Ringed my voicemail and listened to that message 4x, but couldn't figure out what the hell that guy wanted from me. He was speaking as if he just woke up, very quiet and just mumbling something. Eventually I was able to "decipher" words "Metro" "card" and the last three digits on the card. So I suppose it has something to do with my online payment- topping up my GiffGaff that day. Of course I didn't call back.


I don't understand how some people in call centres can have such a lax articulation. If I'm able to watch 2 hours lectures about quantum mechanics or microbiology in English, and understand every single word of it, including technical terms, and then I don't understand some guy mumbling on the phone, I would say it's their fault, not mine.



I was able to sort out sooo many issues via email, Facebook, etc. Why some backward companies still insist on making phone calls. With my Monzo and Starling, I never ever needed to call them. We sorted every single problem via Facebook. If I forget something, I can get back to it, again and again, re-read whatever I want. Writing certainly has its advantages.


Sorry for too long post. Sometimes I just want to write two sentences and then... ooops!