UKPCM (UK) Court date

fat.badger

from what I read from various threads + legal beagle.

My landlords lease states that the right for the tenant and all persons authorised by him... to have access to common external areas with or without a vehicle etc.

My understanding would be that as I had a tenancy agreement with the landlord that is obvious permission for use of the property and the external common areas.

It is the landlords responsibility to share any covenants in the leasehold agreement with any tenants - and things like parking should be included in the tenancy agreement.

Umkomaas

I’m glad Legal Beagles gave you the advice you needed. You might have got some response here (opinion rather than blue-blooded legal advice), but your imminent deadline would have frustrated you if the opinion was not turned around quickly.

My guess would be that you probably wouldn’t have got any opinion here.

fat.badger

Thank you. I now think I've now done as much work and prep as possible - certainly would never have attempted it without the help with forums like this.

Will update the forum in a couple of days with the outcome and any useful advice to others.

fat.badger

Hi guys - I won at court! Yeeeh!

:beer:

I had ordinary costs awarded too inc. travel and loss earnings.

It took nearly two hours and wasn’t plain sailing as some posters experience - you defintley need to know your arguments inside out!

I won on primacy of contract giving me peaceful enjoyment of property therefore allowing loading and unloading. And the judge considered that the signage was forbidding in nature.

However......

The solicitor asked for leave to appeal on the these two points - she refused leave but will still go to a circuit judge - she did worryingly say that this was a good case to go to a higher court to be set as precedent :eek: hopefully they won’t fingers crossed

Anyway... happy to do a full court report this evening

Thank you all for your help!!!!!

Coupon-mad

Yay! Another one bites the dust!

Which court and who was the Judge - please give us that full 'court report'.

:T

fat.badger

Court Report:

Court: Clerkenwell & Shoreditch CC
Judge: unfortunately didn't take her name (relatively young)

Pre-trial

I don't live too far from the court house - due to delays on the hammersmith/city line I found myself running across central london to get to the court on time (just by 5 mins) so I wasn't in the greatest state on arrival.

Luckily the hearing ended up being delayed by 20 mins which allowed me some composure time. The rep that turned up for the claimant seemed reasonably professional and was respectful to me (which I know they are not always) - I didn't ask for his details as I wasn't going to challenge ROA. The usher told me he was there everyday.

The Hearing

The judge sat us down, went through the usual brief. The rep started making the claimants case and it was around 30secs into his submission that my confidence rose. He seemed to realise (as he was reading gladstones copy&paste witness statement) that it was a pile of manure. He was just making assertions such as 'the defendant was parked in a restricted area contray to the signage' -- no real points in law.

The judge soon got bored and started challenging some of the rubbish evidence Gladstones had exhibited. The judge then raised a point of my defence i..e the signage was forbidding/no offer to park and they then had a protracted argument about contract law - it was at this point I thought 'ah good, hopefully I can be in the pub by 11'; however this judge wanted to examine all my evidence/arguments....

I submitted that they had exhibited a one-page agreement with a managing agent that authorised the claimant to operate on the land - I challenged their evidence as they had shown no contract with the landowner or evidenced a proper chain of authority for the managing agent to act on behalf of landowner.

I then argued that as I was unloading the terms of the lease gave me the rights to pass with or without a vehicle and that I had a right under statue to peaceful enjoyment of my property. I argued I was going about legitimate residents business and that common-sense would suggest that this is so.

I then argued about no offer in the signage - read some points from case law like pcm vs bull.

The judge then thanked us (hadn't quite got all my points across) adjourned to read the case law I had exhibited.

Judgement

The judge then called us back in. She found in my favour citing that my argument around primacy of contract - lease giving resident peaceful enjoyment of the property trumped any signage which is 'primarily' (lol) intended to deter non-residents. She said if she was considering signage then she was convinced that there was no offer to park and the case law supported this judgement. She said that she was satisfied that the managing agent had sufficient authority to contract out parking services to claimant however.

Costs

The rep was visibly miffed at this point. I had submitted a costs schedule which the judge went through. The rep tried to argue my lost wages down to half a day - I agreed on the basis that was still £95 haha. I got transport - but she wouldn't pay my original set-aside fee or unreasonable costs.

The rep then asked to appeal - he disputed the primacy of contract point as I was 'clearly' parked for 15 mins, and also appealed over the T&Cs offering nothing. The judge did not give leave to appeal - however as I already stated did say something like: this will still go to a circuit judge and if you are given permission to appeal it may make a good test case for you (he was arguing earlier on about there being no precedent in residential parking around forbidding signage and breach of contract etc)

Post-trial

I missed weatherspoons breakfast time due to the overun; mercifully they were doing all-day 'brunch' so I settled for a celebratory one of those instead.

fat.badger

A big thank you to again to all the people that run this forum and the contributors.

I wish I had known about it earlier....

fat.badger

fat.badger wrote: »

Court Report:
The rep then asked to appeal - he disputed the primacy of contract point as I was 'clearly' parked for 15 mins, and also appealed over the T&Cs offering nothing. The judge did not give leave to appeal - however as I already stated did say something like: this will still go to a circuit judge and if you are given permission to appeal it may make a good test case for you (he was arguing earlier on about there being no precedent in residential parking around forbidding signage and breach of contract etc)

I forgot to ask - is this routine for claimants to ask permission to appeal? what happens if they are granted permission:(?

[Deleted User]

Congratulations. A fine result. Nice to have a finding that won on the primary (lease /loading) point and on the secondary (that signage probably not a contract anyway).

The barrister in my case earlier this year advised that UK CPM are instructing them to appeal all cases after a loss before the DJ (other companies may be similar). We had a big chat as my case was adjourned before judgment. Sure enough he appealed. It was rejected.

It seems fine way to cheese everyone off - like saying each time they lose to a defendant it's because the judge is wrong (probability doesn't work like that) - but they'll often be slapped down, as appears to be the case with you. Far fewer cases will progress to lodgement of a written appeal to a circuit judge.

On written appeal they need a ground to show why the DJ was wrong for permission to get it back on. Given that there was a success on two fronts here, I wouldn't much like their chances. Their risk is that a circuit judge could find their standard sign unenforceable. That would set a problem immediately as they cannot mislead the court on other cases if there is binding authority (which an adverse judgment from a superior court would potentially create).

They normally have 28 days to lodge the documents for an appeal. Hopefully your cheque will arrive before then

Don't forget judgment rate interest (8% of the sum awarded/365) accrues each day that payment is late.

fat.badger

Johnersh wrote: »

Don't forget judgment rate interest (8% of the sum awarded/365) accrues each day that payment is late.

:money: I've already entered it into my calendar!

Thanks - I'm not too worried about them appealing. Felt like a bit of a curve-ball at the end of the hearing as I'm not sure I've seen other examples in the forum - but sure as you state happens all the time.