PCN fine for parking in own space (leasehold flat)

NeilCr

So it is a Notting Hill Housing property? I guess they both own and manage the site themselves which answers my question!

Is this a mix of private, shared ownership etc? Sometimes on these sort of developments the HA does own the car park. Not sure which one of their sites you are on but it is a possibility.

Colindale Pulse for example has some "interesting" parking rules and background

http://www.colindalepulse.com/private-properties.html

Half_way

Could replace this

If there is somewhere in our lease which states you are not jointly liable for the actions of the agents/ contracts you employ which affect us, please could you send me this? Similarly could you please indicate the part of the lease which states where N.Hill is able to employ any kind of service to charge me for the space I already purchased, and that I must adhere to their rules.

With something like:
You should be aware that you are liable for the actions of your agents( in this case the parking company), a principle that was tested in the Supreme court, where it was ruled that Morrisons were liable for the actions of its employees ( agents) ( https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2014-0087-press-summary.pdf)

I trust that you are also aware of the term Derogation of Grant, where something that I already have rights to/access to can not be taken away.


As you will be jointly liable for the actions of your agents, by allowing / instructing an un regulated private parking company to operate ( neither the British Parking Association limited, or the International Parking Community are regulators - just private member trade clubs) you could be putting yourselves at risk of action being taken against you as a result of your agents actions, including harassment, trespass, and any breach of the GDPR regulations such as unlawfuly accessing personal data ( if a pre exisitng right to park exists then the parking company has no right to access a registered keepers data) data acuracy etc


OK, some oif that may/will need trimming, but it should give you an idea

Coupon-mad

I would refer them to Kettel v Bloomfold:

https://webstroke.co.uk/law/cases/kettel-v-bloomfold-2012

Not quite the same as that was about the fact an MA could not build over the parking bays and move them somewhere not so convenient.

But one finding was, ''the landlord and servient land owner could not unilaterally extinguish the easement''.

KR2997

You all have been fantastically helpful. Sending Notting Hill an email today, with updated suggestions.
@Neil, yes its part private, part SO, but I couldnt find the part of the lease stating ownership of the car park, or referring to that. So I have kept the part in asking them to point out where in the lease they think they have me "obligated".

Thanks all, will update you when they get back to me!

The_Deep

The management/ landlord company seem to strongly advise I pay, although I don't understand why.

Because imo going back over 40 years as a landlord, MAs are ignorant of the laws. read my post on here.

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/1053920-private-parking-companies

and complain to your MP.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem has become so widespread that MPs have enacted a bill which will come into force later this year to regulate these scammers.

Coupon-mad

The management/ landlord company seem to strongly advise I pay, although I don't understand why.

Because it makes their life easier, and because THEY contracted with the scammers so are deluded enough to think they can do this to people to keep you all in line.

KR2997

Result!!

N.H came back and said they got the ticket cancelled. It's a difficult balance between saying thanks, but why the hell didn't you do that first (maybe I'm being too polite here). I've gone back asking as much, if this is to be policy going forward, and how we go about removing the service.I suppose the challenge now is to stop !!!!!! residents/ other people just stealing spaces.

A HUGE thank you to all of you for your time and expertise. It's nice to be able to take some power back from what I originally believed was an unfair situation i had no control over. I really do appreciate it, and will be spreading the word to other people/residents.

Cheers!

DoaM

Congrats.


Have you got them to exclude your parking space from the "scheme"? Or at least whitelist the vehicle reg marks you can give them so they're excluded from receiving PCNs if parked in that space?

NeilCr

KR2997 wrote: »

.I suppose the challenge now is to stop !!!!!! residents/ other people just stealing spaces.



Cheers!

Yep that's the biggie now. There are a lot of selfish people out there

Some of our residents have put up parking posts in their spaces

Like this (but you can get cheaper versions)

https://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/bollards-c1022/security-bollards-safety-bollards-c1023/parking-post-square-fold-down-complete-with-bolts-padlock-british-made-p9071?shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkPe8idHt4AIVFuh3Ch2Rfgu4EAQYASABEgIt_fD_BwE

Congrats btw

KR2997

So, a weird development -
N.H came back to me saying they actually paid for my ticket to be cancelled as a rare gesture of good will, and "Park Direct are a free service and they make their money off ticketing residents who have not followed the site rules" - so basically if it happens again, you are on your own.

"If permits are not displayed even though a resident is parked in their own bay – they will be ticketed. These are the site rules and all residents have been made aware of this. The decision to provide parking enforcement to this site was the outcome of a trial period that occurred at the handover of the development. During this trial period NHG found that the management of the parking at the development would prove to be difficult in ensuring that residents are parking in their allocated spaces and prevent the chances of cars parking illegally at the site. Following the outcome of this trial period NHG came to the decision that the best way to manage the parking going forward was to engage the services of Park direct and at this stage our position has not changed. We have taken your thoughts and concerns with the current parking management into consideration and will keep this is mind going forward"

So this was essentially what I was expecting them to say, but without actually cancelling the ticket. I may be missing the point, but they seem to have ignored the part about none of this being in my lease, and reiterating the service is going nowhere because they can do what they want..

Unsure if I am likely to get anywhere now by repeating myself, but am planning to write back anyway asking where in my lease it says they can do this..