Help to invest in gold?

Brown_Bear

Flobberchops wrote: »

Why not silver? I was under the impression that silver was undervalued at the moment whereas gold is not a particular bargain at current prices.

Is there any reason you decided to invest solely in gold? Why not silver, too? In a SHTF scenario silver would be more easily tradeable for everyday commodities and would represent less of a personal risk than rocking up to the trading post with a gold coin in your pocket worth a month's salary. Silver is sensibly priced at the moment with a favourable ratio to gold, and can be sourced VAT free if you use a Euro seller (may change after Brexit!). So, at the very least I would encourage you to diversify between Gold Sovereigns and Silver Britannias.


Lastly, if you're truly worried about societal collapse and civil unrest, are you also investing in a robust home security system? A decent vehicle? Medical supplies and first aid training?

I think the approach you describe is a common mindset in the USA.
But I don't think it works in the UK.
I don't think silver would become used for 'barter' because most UK people wouldn't recognise or understand it. If the pound collapsed we'd be using USD or Euros. Or just more GBP notes.

The mindset in the USA is that in some kind of disaster you can just barricade yourself in and protect yourself. This just isn't reality in the UK / Europe. In Europe if there's a major problem people either just carry on (Greece) or flee (Yugoslavia).

I may be wrong - but I don't think people in Greece started paying for their shopping in silver bullion coins. But I suspect some people with hidden gold coins took them out of the country in their pocket etc.

The other thing about the UK - is that the 'disaster' may not be widespread. It could just be a personal disaster - such as getting sick and unable to work. In such a situation, when forced to deal with the UK govt you don't want a lot of registered assets. You want bearer assets (such as gold coins).

raffs

dealer_wins wrote: »

OP if you would elaborate a bit im sure you will get some very helpful replies.

Is this £30K your entire savings?

Do you have sufficient income without using the £30K?

Long term what are the plans for this money?

It's money that I hope to protect from whatever happens around Brexit while also putting away for 5 - 10 years hoping that it can make some money as well.

Flobberchops

Brown_Bear wrote: »

I think the approach you describe is a common mindset in the USA.
But I don't think it works in the UK.
I don't think silver would become used for 'barter' because most UK people wouldn't recognise or understand it. If the pound collapsed we'd be using USD or Euros. Or just more GBP notes.

The mindset in the USA is that in some kind of disaster you can just barricade yourself in and protect yourself. This just isn't reality in the UK / Europe. In Europe if there's a major problem people either just carry on (Greece) or flee (Yugoslavia).

I may be wrong - but I don't think people in Greece started paying for their shopping in silver bullion coins. But I suspect some people with hidden gold coins took them out of the country in their pocket etc.

The other thing about the UK - is that the 'disaster' may not be widespread. It could just be a personal disaster - such as getting sick and unable to work. In such a situation, when forced to deal with the UK govt you don't want a lot of registered assets. You want bearer assets (such as gold coins).

OK, that makes a lot of sense. You're right, I don't feel the US style "prepper" mindset translates well to a UK situation, and to be honest I feel the OP is barking up the wrong tree.


Still, I have a soft spot for holding some precious metals, both as a hedge and as a long-term investment. European-bought silver is a good deal at the moment, and I'm not overly worried about being on a list - if the government decided to seize my assets they would find it orders of magnitude easier to empty my bank and trading accounts than locate and take my physical metals. And in all probability I'd be up the creek without a paddle at that point anyway!

Malthusian

Brown_Bear wrote: »

In many cultures people buy gold regularly with their wages throughout life.

Because those cultures are dirt poor and do not have access to developed financial markets.

It could just be a personal disaster - such as getting sick and unable to work. In such a situation, when forced to deal with the UK govt you don't want a lot of registered assets. You want bearer assets (such as gold coins).

To be clear, are you saying that you want to commit benefit fraud?

dealer_wins

raffs wrote: »

It's money that I hope to protect from whatever happens around Brexit while also putting away for 5 - 10 years hoping that it can make some money as well.

If it were me I would put it into a FT100 tracker. (Its 70% foreign companies anyway) Brexit will be a distant memory in 10 years time.

Nothing wrong with gold, but it doesnt provide any income or dividend, so you are relying solely on the price to go up. But there is a very real chance of the price dropping, would you be happy if after 10 years your gold was worth £20K?

Brown_Bear

Malthusian wrote: »

Because those cultures are dirt poor and do not have access to developed financial markets.

To be clear, are you saying that you want to commit benefit fraud?

I'm saying that no one can predict the future and that having all your assets registered with the govt may not be a good idea. Especially as no one can say who will take over as the govt in the future. For many reasons.

Not just tax / benefits. Also things like imprisonment and confiscation / freezing of assets.

Also if war breaks out - it doesn't have to be in your own country to threaten you. For example, young men were conscripted to Vietnam and Korean wars not that long ago. If you have relatives / offspring who may be targeted for conscription - then gold is probably the only asset that will enable them to escape.

During WW2 other securities (such as foreign shares) were confiscated by the govt.

Far fetched...?

For example, if you were a Jew in Germany in 1930s or a Greek Cypriot in Northern Cyprus in the 1970s. There could have been records of your assets with a previous (less threatening) govt / banks etc from years before. But you probably won't receive an option to have those records deleted when the next govt takes control.

Only an anonymous, confidential bearer asset (such as physical gold) can protect you in these situations. But gold won't pay you rent, coupons, dividends or interest. So it's got to be an individual situation.

But I would say, the poorer and more vulnerable you potentially are - the greater proportion you should hold in gold.

Brown_Bear

Flobberchops wrote: »

OK, that makes a lot of sense. You're right, I don't feel the US style "prepper" mindset translates well to a UK situation, and to be honest I feel the OP is barking up the wrong tree.


Still, I have a soft spot for holding some precious metals, both as a hedge and as a long-term investment. European-bought silver is a good deal at the moment, and I'm not overly worried about being on a list - if the government decided to seize my assets they would find it orders of magnitude easier to empty my bank and trading accounts than locate and take my physical metals. And in all probability I'd be up the creek without a paddle at that point anyway!

The problem you may face in such a situation is that to sell your bullion - you may need to provide ID, NI number etc at the local money shop. Or the shop may be closed down or restricted etc. With gold you stand a better chance of being able to get out of the country with it - in order to sell it in a more friendly country. (eg when some Jews left Nazi Germany). Silver would be too bulky.

That's why some companies now make the 24 ct bullion jewelry.

Brown_Bear

raffs wrote: »

It's money that I hope to protect from whatever happens around Brexit while also putting away for 5 - 10 years hoping that it can make some money as well.

It sounds to me like you're more concerned with GBP devaluation / inflation risk.

I think the Brexit thing is done now. Whatever GBP you had in June 2016 took a 20% loss and you'll never get that back. It's already priced in now.

You don't sound like you're that interested in asset protection issues. So gold is probably not the best option for you. Like I said earlier - you're probably best with something like a multi-asset fund.

I only own gold for asset protection insurance / emergencies. So I don't really care if it drops in price because if I'm spending it I've got more important things to worry about.

badger09

dealer_wins wrote: »

If it were me I would put it into a FT100 tracker. (Its 70% foreign companies anyway) Brexit will be a distant memory in 10 years time.

Nothing wrong with gold, but it doesnt provide any income or dividend, so you are relying solely on the price to go up. But there is a very real chance of the price dropping, would you be happy if after 10 years your gold was worth £20K?

Why a FTSE 100 tracker?

Why not a global multi asset fund such as those mentioned in post 4?

Brown_Bear

badger09 wrote: »

Why a FTSE 100 tracker?

Why not a global multi asset fund such as those mentioned in post 4?

FTSE 100 tracker is usually cheaper than a global tracker.

Also FTSE 100 is probably less over-valued than a global tracker - as the global tracker would have heavy exposure to the USA which is currently expensive (P/E).

And most of the developed stock indices are correlated anyway. So they often rise and fall together.