appeal against a redundancy

Burnz0

a quick question - if i'm appealing against being made redundant as i don't believe they've carried out a fair process (and also that ive clearly been singled out) is the basis of my appeal to keep a job or is it acceptable that i simply want more money?
I'm just curious to know where i stand and whether any requests for a bigger settlement should strictly be off the record?

Burnz0

to add some context - i've sent me appeal letter and accidentally (and very stupidly) forgot to remove previous drafts from the email where i've very briefly mentioned aiming for a better payout (to the person reviewing my email for me).
The points i've mentioned throughout are completely valid and i stand behind them but i obviously look rather stupid for not deleting the chain. It was also a waste of several hours fine tuning the email when all of the drafts are on display!
I'm just wondering if i've now completely ruined my case? does mentioning a settlement in an appeal render the appeal a waste of time and not a genuine appeal?

Masomnia

Is it too late to recall the email if you can?

Not sure it makes too much difference in the grand scheme of things, maybe weakens your negotiating position, but at the end of the day they know what you're after now which is probably not a bad thing.

Appealing and saying that you don't think it's fair but if they won't give your job back you're willing to settle is valid imho.

Burnz0

Unfortunately Hotmail doesn't provide that option.

I think I've come to the same conclusion now anyway.
I've already let them know i'm not happy with what they're offering given the circumstances so any mention of additional cash shouldn't come as a surprise.
The appeal email just better expressed my issues than what I've spoken to them about before and there is a logical progression from the first draft to the 'final' in terms of adding extra, relevant detail rather than any drastic change to any point I'm making .
It's just frustrating that up to now I've conducted myself quite well and it's been them that's been very sloppy in their approach and it's just a very silly mistake - probably due to the stress of the situation!

p00hsticks

Burnz0 wrote: »

a quick question - if i'm appealing against being made redundant as i don't believe they've carried out a fair process (and also that ive clearly been singled out) is the basis of my appeal to keep a job or is it acceptable that i simply want more money?

I'm not an expert but I'd say that they are two contradictory postions - either you believe that you shouldn't be made redundant, or you believe that the process they've carried out is fair but you'd like more money.

jonnygee2

If anything, saying you are aiming for a settlement shows reasonableness on your part. It's not like you said you wanted to 'screw them', make them suffer etc - just that you want some financial compensation for being victim of an unfair redundancy - which is how these things are settled anyway.

It sounds a bit embarrassing, and not perfect, but unlikely to affect the final outcome.

Burnz0

it turns out i didn't send the entire email chain as i'd initially thought so it was a lot of panic over nothing. (It was just the way hotmail links emails together into a conversation)

I'm not an expert but I'd say that they are two contradictory postions - either you believe that you shouldn't be made redundant, or you believe that the process they've carried out is fair but you'd like more money

No, i definitely don't think the process is fair, although i've read that they could conduct a 'fair' process and still engineer in a way that's hard for the employee to contest - but they've clearly not made any effort to do that.

My question was just whether an appeal should only be if you want your job back or if wanting a bigger settlement is a reasonable motive for appealing and i've come to the conclusion that it is. As someone else has said, showing signs that you want to settle it out of the tribunal etc. seems to be an important step.

Ozzuk

Doesn't sound like keeping your job is an option, though we can't know what they are thinking. Redundancy is sadly used sometimes to remove people you don't want, it shouldn't be, but as you admit, it isn't difficult to set it up to get the result you want. So if they've done that it certainly looks like they want you out.

So I'd focus on getting a better payout by demonstrating they haven't followed process. It may not work (you haven't said what they've done wrong), but they might just bump payment to get rid of you.

Good luck!

Masomnia

In your position I'd send 2 letters.

1. An appeal saying that the process was flawed because of x y and z, and could they please review and consider whether under these circumstances you should have been dismissed?

2. A letter marked without prejudice saying essentially the same but that you're willing to accept more money to go away and not bring a claim.

At the very least they'll think you've taken professional advice and hopefully will just pay you the extra to !!!!!! off

Good luck.

ETA They might call your bluff and give you your job back though!!