Marriage

Darksparkle

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I agree with Darksparkle and Calcotti.

If you got married then you would have to make a joint claim for tax credits. However, this change would trigger a move to Universal Credit.

But for universal credit you would be treated as single claimants as you would have to live together to make a joint claim.

However, if you are receiving the severe disability premium with your ESA (check your award letter) then you can remain on your current benefits but have to make a joint claim for tax credits when you get married.

I do not know if there are any exceptions to having to make a joint claim for tax credits (if you receive the severe disability premium with your ESA) in your circumstances. I am sure Darksparkle would have mentioned them if there are exceptions.

So, first check whether you have a severe disability premium with your ESA (about £60 a week extra). Your award letter will tell you where they write about how your ESA has been calculated.

This is a very complicated situation and you really need to get some specialist advice. Have you got a CAB near you?

Of course the alternative is not to get married but continue as you are.

I'm not 100% as I've made every effort to not know about UC :rotfl:

I believe the severe disability premium is the only exception to moving to UC except through managed migration.

pmlindyloo

Darksparkle wrote: »

I'm not 100% as I've made every effort to not know about UC :rotfl:

I believe the severe disability premium is the only exception to moving to UC except through managed migration.

Sorry, very badly worded on my part.

I meant are there any exceptions made if the two are married but living separately and maintaining two different households?

Also, if they had to make a joint claim for child tax credits would they be worse off (presumably they could 'divide up' the money) since they are both currently on means tested benefits?

Or would HMRC query the fact that they were receiving single income based benefits but making a joint claim for tax credits. or would they take the two separate income based payments into account as income?

Hope this makes sense:)

Darksparkle

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Sorry, very badly worded on my part.

I meant are there any exceptions made if the two are married but living separately and maintaining two different households?

Also, if they had to make a joint claim for child tax credits would they be worse off (presumably they could 'divide up' the money) since they are both currently on means tested benefits?

Or would HMRC query the fact that they were receiving single income based benefits but making a joint claim for tax credits. or would they take the two separate income based payments into account as income?

Hope this makes sense:)

None that I can think of other than married couples separated under a court order or separated in circumstances likely to be permanent. Maybe some residence exceptions if not in the UK.

The only potential issue I could think of with a joint tax credit claim would be the number of children, sounds like there are at least 3 so perhaps wouldn't get tax credits for the third depending on age.

I can't imagine HMRC questioning why they claim as a couple. I think it would be the other way about that DWP would question why they are claiming as single, so they'd need evidence to prove they don't live together and meet the DWP criteria to claim single.

Income based benefits aren't income for tax credits, it would give them maximum tax credits.

calcotti

pmlindyloo is right that if you get SDP in ESA you can make a new Tax Credits claim as a couple. As Darksparkle says you may get less money from your two single claims.


However there seems lots of scope for DWP and HMRC to trip over each because they have different definitions of couple. For HMRC you are a couple because you are married. For DWP you are not a couple if you do not live together, even if you are married.


As SDP is only applicable to single claimants HMRC may have difficulty accepting that you can claim Tax Credits as a couple. I can also forsee issues if only one of you has an SDP and the other does not.


Of course if neither of you has the SDP then this is all academic, upon marriage you will have to tell HMRC and will both lose your Tax Credits but you will be able to make individual claims for UC.

pmlindyloo

calcotti wrote: »

pmlindyloo is right that if you get SDP in ESA you can make a new Tax Credits claim as a couple. As Darksparkle says you may get less money from your two single claims.


However there seems lots of scope for DWP and HMRC to trip over each because they have different definitions of couple. For HMRC you are a couple because you are married. For DWP you are not a couple if you do not live together, even if you are married.


As SDP is only applicable to single claimants HMRC may have difficulty accepting that you can claim Tax Credits as a couple. I can also forsee issues if only one of you has an SDP and the other does not.


Of course if neither of you has the SDP then this is all academic, upon marriage you will have to tell HMRC and will both lose your Tax Credits but you will be able to make individual claims for UC.

I find this all very interesting especially the part about a married couple being able to make two single claims for Universal Credit if they are not living in the same household.

I am wondering if this is some kind of loophole. Usually this situation about married couples refer to when they have separated. In this case the OP and partner are choosing not to live in one household.

I have a feeling that the OP is going to have some investigation launched whichever way they have to take.

calcotti

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I find this all very interesting especially the part about a married couple being able to make two single claims for Universal Credit if they are not living in the same household.

I am wondering if this is some kind of loophole. Usually this situation about married couples refer to when they have separated. In this case the OP and partner are choosing not to live in one household.

I have a feeling that the OP is going to have some investigation launched whichever way they have to take.

I agree it's rather curious. I am only going by what Advice to Decision Makers says as referenced in post 10.

Icequeen99

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I find this all very interesting especially the part about a married couple being able to make two single claims for Universal Credit if they are not living in the same household.

I am wondering if this is some kind of loophole. Usually this situation about married couples refer to when they have separated. In this case the OP and partner are choosing not to live in one household.

I have a feeling that the OP is going to have some investigation launched whichever way they have to take.

This is a fascinating scenario because of the potential for SDP and it highlights the difference in definitions. I don't think it is a loophole, it was done with full knowledge that it is different to tax credits. TFC uses the UC definition of couples as well.

I think DSparkle is right, that if SDP is in play then when they get married the tax credits will end, and that they will need to claim jointly for tax credits because (if there is SDP) they can't claim UC. But if there isn't they can claim UC. Very interesting.

IQ

calcotti

Icequeen99 wrote: »

This is a fascinating scenario because of the potential for SDP and it highlights the difference in definitions. I don't think it is a loophole, it was done with full knowledge that it is different to tax credits. TFC uses the UC definition of couples as well.

I think DSparkle is right, that if SDP is in play then when they get married the tax credits will end, and that they will need to claim jointly for tax credits because (if there is SDP) they can't claim UC. But if there isn't they can claim UC. Very interesting. IQ

The bit I couldn't get my head round (amongst others) is that if one has SDP and the other does not then one is excluded from UC but the other is not. In those circumstances can they make a joint claim for Tax Credits?


One thing I think is clear is that by marrying in the manner suggested by OP they are opening up a great deal of uncertainty about their future financial situation.

Icequeen99

calcotti wrote: »

The bit I couldn't get my head round (amongst others) is that if one has SDP and the other does not then one is excluded from UC but the other is not. In those circumstances can they make a joint claim for Tax Credits?


One thing I think is clear is that by marrying in the manner suggested by OP they are opening up a great deal of uncertainty about their future financial situation.

yes, i think you're right. So only the person getting the SDP would be excluded from UC, the other person would be able to claim UC as a single person because they wouldn't be making a joint claim for UC. But I suppose it is somewhat academic because the person with SDP would need support so the only place they can get it is tax credits - which would treat them as a couple if they married.

I'm glad it's all so simple.

IQ