Urgent information request PCN

twhitehousescat

my crystal ball is still broke

davester

twhitehousescat wrote: »

my crystal ball is still broke

UKCPM



I read the COP from ICP and the use of "fine" is still prohibited.

twhitehousescat

yes it is , it was legislated against back in 2012

however the permit was not issued by a parking co

davester

twhitehousescat wrote: »

yes it is , it was legislated against back in 2012

however the permit was not issued by a parking co

The permit is required to fulfill the contract. That permit becomes part of the contract. they already have accepted the permit as valid permit for their terms of contract.
If the permit is void because of the term fine, then it is impossible to fulfill a contract. This breaks contract law therefore no contract existed.

Coupon-mad

That's an interesting take on it. Nothing makes the entire permit void but this might make an uncomfortable enough argument to try IAS...

What does the current IPC CoP say about the word fine (word for word, please)?

davester

11. Holding Yourself out as the Authorities11.1 You must not state or imply you have any government or regulatory powers if this is not the case.11.2 You must ensure your company stationery and all other forms of correspondence or communication do not describe any charge which may be issued to a driver in terms that imply you have any authority as defined above by use of such words as ‘fine’ or ‘penalty’, nor must the term ‘PCN’ be used unless it has been previously defined as reference to a ‘Parking Charge Notice’.


The permit is a form communication detailing the terms of use of the permit. which as i have in writing by ukcpm they acknowledge the permit as valid permit which if hadn't fallen on the floor would have stopped them issuing a PCN as the permit has done about 200 times before.

Coupon-mad

I think this ruins your argument, so don't say this:

they acknowledge the permit as valid permit which if hadn't fallen on the floor would have stopped them issuing a PCN as the permit has done about 200 times before.

Draft an IAS appeal - rare we suggest people bother, so do this with your eyes wide open, expecting to lose - based on that IPC CoP point.

But:

2. Permit doesn't mention the parking company at all.

Hmmm - that's not great - can you tie it to them?

Does the resident get this permit from UKCPM, have they got an email or contact to get replacement permits from UKCPM, and/or does the website or any info about the residence, state that the permit scheme is operated by UKCPM?

Dig out something, even if the resident quickly emails the RA saying he thinks he has 'mislaid' his remaining visitor permits and where does he get more from, and who issues them? You want the answer in writing/email: 'UKCPM'! No phone calls.

davester

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I think this ruins your argument, so don't say this:


Draft an IAS appeal - rare we suggest people bother, so do this with your eyes wide open, expecting to lose - based on that IPC CoP point.

But:
Hmmm - that's not great - can you tie it to them? The PCN uses the location as the name of the permit residents association (A dormant company of 0 assets but apparently the landlords).

Does the resident get this permit from UKCPM, have they got an email or contact to get replacement permits from UKCPM, and/or does the website or any info about the residence, state that the permit scheme is operated by UKCPM? They requst the permits from the Housing association that manages the property. Yes HA

It is only till you get a PCN is their reference to the permits name. Signage nor Permit cross reference each other.


The point I am making is that regardless of a permit or not, the contract could never be fulfilled under contract law as the permit (part of the terms of the contract) is illegal and therefore voids any contract made. The law is clear that impossible terms in a contract causes a return to a state in which the contract never existed between parties. i.e goods services, money, penalties, charges etc are returned to their original party.

Coupon-mad

Hmmm, up to you then.

As long as you try any IAS appeal with your eyes wide open and don't come here wondering whether to pay if you lose, then give that a go based on the IPC CoP and attach proof that the permit has the word 'fine'.

twhitehousescat

hang on , its not illegal for anyone to say trespassers will be shot or you will be fined for doing something

however the management co are not fining you or shooting you , however a company that they employ are asking you to pay an invoice , not a fine

so is it a fine or an invoice?