Bank account closed- and they are NOT RETURNING MY MONEY

jonnygee2

They can't possibly have evidence since they cannot see any details of any bitcoins I've bought or sold. All they can see are GBP going in (from me) and going out (to a bitcoin exchange).

How young are you? It seems very naive to think this is all the information they could have. How do you think so many money launderers get caught and prosecuted each year?

As for whether I'm complicit in money laundering or not (regardless of whether they can tell)- what matters, legally, is less whether or not bitcoin I sold was used in a crime, what matters is that I took the appropriate KYC/AML steps at all times. Otherwise every bank in the world would be !!!!ed. It is not possible to 100% prevent money being used for money laundering, all you can do is take the appropriate steps to prevent it. Which I do, by obtaining ID for all customers, source of funds for large purchases, etc etc. Furthermore, the KYC/AML laws do not even apply to bitcoin anyway- so what I've been doing is well above and beyond my legal duty. I have spoken to the FCA who are very clear on this point.

Your understanding of anti-money laundering regulation reads a bit like it's what you managed to google in your lunch break. Do you really think the buck stops at ID checks?! That once you've checked someone's ID you are then immune from any prosecution?

Ultimately if you receive or send money into your personal bank account that is the proceeds of criminal activity, your funds can be confiscated and you can be prosecuted and jailed. And this is lawful. And no, 'legally what matters' is not whether you asked for their passport first.

The more I've read about my problem and discussed with various people, the more convinced I am that they will be forced to return it.

Banks have large, skilled financial crime teams, often recruited from the police forces, legal departments, and close links to the police forces and regulators who monitor financial crime.

And you have some googled knowledge and a couple of mates who think you are probably right.

But sure, you might be the one who knows more here!

John_G_Jones

OP appears to have been running an illegal financial services business. He talks about carrying out AML procedures on his customers but was trying to do this without an FCA license, and via a non-business bank account.

Even if not guilty of money laundering ne’s GUI,ty of gross stupidity.

OP, if you do indeed have customers you are so far on the wrong side of the law that the proper outcome is serious jail time, not just losing your illegally traded money.

Do you actually understand the requirements to run a scheme such as yours, servicing customers without the appropriate license, and trying to disguise it by going via a retail account?

I’ve no doubt that you’ll now change your story, and say that they were not really your customers at all, but if you do get away with this by virtue of it being piddling little size then please learn the appropriate lessons and don’t do it again.

mcplums

John_G_Jones wrote: »

They will never reveal it to you. The penalties for facilitating money laundering are massive (I.e. billions, not millions) and banks have a legal duty to freeze the accounts and investigate. They may want to know what you were using it for, was it gambling or payments, and if payments why would you use a currency that’s so frequently used for crime?

Sure but they will have to reveal it to the arbitration body who will decide whether or not I was money laundering. Of course I will be happy to provide whatever documentation they ask for.

John_G_Jones wrote: »

So you seem to be either using the account for business and if not, look to be acting exactly as someone in the layering stage of money laundering would be. Quite why you think a U.K. bank will be happy to facilitate this is beyond me, what do you think is in it for them having someone abuse their account in this way?

You misunderstand. I'm not complaining about my account being closed. I'm complaining about them not returning my money.

mcplums

John_G_Jones wrote: »

OP appears to have been running an illegal financial services business. He talks about carrying out AML procedures on his customers but was trying to do this without an FCA license, and via a non-business bank account.

Even if not guilty of money laundering ne’s GUI,ty of gross stupidity.

I already tried to get an FCA licence and they said bitcoins are outside of their jurisdiction. Similar story with HMRC. Please specify what I'm doing that is illegal and/or stupid?

John_G_Jones wrote: »

OP, if you do indeed have customers you are so far on the wrong side of the law that the proper outcome is serious jail time, not just losing your illegally traded money.

Do you actually understand the requirements to run a scheme such as yours, servicing customers without the appropriate license, and trying to disguise it by going via a retail account?

I’ve no doubt that you’ll now change your story, and say that they were not really your customers at all, but if you do get away with this by virtue of it being piddling little size then please learn the appropriate lessons and don’t do it again.

Again, please specify how I am on the wrong side of the law. Re. the requirements- yes, there are none, since I'm outside of the FCA and HMRC's remit, and despite that I take all reasonable precautions. If you believe I'm mistaken on this please specify how.

I see no reason to change my story.

mcplums

brianposter wrote: »

Have the FOS said that you cannot complain to them about FidorUK ?

And why is the small claims court not adequate as Fidor do appear to have some UK presence ?

Yes that is what the FOS said.

Hadn't even thought about small claims court. I will look into this- thanks for the suggestion.

colsten

mcplums wrote: »

I already tried to get an FCA licence and they said bitcoins are outside of their jurisdiction. Similar story with HMRC. Please specify what I'm doing that is illegal and/or stupid?

I reckon the bottom line is that you provided financial services which is illegal in the UK unless you have FCA/PRA authorisation.

mcplums

colsten wrote: »

I reckon the bottom line is that you provided financial services which is illegal in the UK unless you have FCA/PRA authorisation.

So every single bitcoin exchange that operates in the UK is breaking the law in your opinion?

jonnygee2

Sure but they will have to reveal it to the arbitration body who will decide whether or not I was money laundering.

No they won't. This is not how this will be dealt with. Arbitration bodies do not investigate claims of money laundering, it has nothing to do with them.

Re. the requirements- yes, there are none, since I'm outside of the FCA and HMRC's remit

The police, not the FCA or HMRC, are responsible for investigating money laundering, because it is a criminal offence.

For regulated financial services some authority to monitor AML compliance is delegated the FCA (for obvious reasons).

So either you are regulated by the FCA, or you fall directly under the jurisdiction of the police. In either case, a crime is a crime and is dealt with.

If you believe I'm mistaken on this please specify how.

Your basic level of confusion is that you've confused AML regulation with the actual crime of laundering money. You are probably right that AML regulations don't apply to you, you are completely wrong that this means you can't be found guilty of money laundering.

But, basically, it's really clear from everything you've said that you know nothing about any of this and are way out of your depth.

masonic

For what it's worth, Fidor is not FCA authorised and operates via the Passport scheme. In six weeks it may have no more rights to provide financial services in the UK than the OP does.

Personally, I think small claims court action is a total non-starter as Fidor Bank UK is just a trading name of the German company.

masonic

mcplums wrote: »

So every single bitcoin exchange that operates in the UK is breaking the law in your opinion?

The exchanges create a marketplace. That isn't a regulated activity, but using it might be, depending on your usage.