Rent & Council Arrears, with Bankruptcy

TheGardener

Good to hear - well done for that.:T
I asked about your partners income - please don't think I am asking you to share confidential info - because if you live with another adult then there will be an expectation by the OR that they contribute to the household income unless there is a very specific reason why they cannot; for example caring for very young children or disability However both of these examples would mean some benefits coming into the household (unless you are a very high earner)

Madfool

TheGardener wrote: »

Good to hear - well done for that.:T
I asked about your partners income - please don't think I am asking you to share confidential info - because if you live with another adult then there will be an expectation by the OR that they contribute to the household income unless there is a very specific reason why they cannot; for example caring for very young children or disability However both of these examples would mean some benefits coming into the household (unless you are a very high earner)

My partner already works full-time, and we have 3 children (go us) but even with her income which i included on my SOA with StepChange it's still bankruptcy for me.

Annie35

You'd need to deal with the rent before BR. There is a big fear of 'Preferential Payments' (& rightly so in some cases) but what I understand, PP is the desire to put a creditor in a better situation then the br process would do.

So your defence of paying the rent debt would be to prevent being evicted & in no way a desire to make creditor better off, compounded by the assumption ll would have insurance: evict you & insurance will pay his lost rent so he'd be no worse off if you went BR or not.

I'd be inclined to get straight on rent arrears ASAP to secure your home.

Obviously please do talk this through with as many professional advisors as you can as this is just my thoughts.

(SOURCE:
https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/technicalmanual/ch25-36/Chapter31/part4A/Part 2/Part 2.htm#31.4A.36
....
31.4A.32 Transactions not normally viewed as preferences if desire to prefer not a motivating factor

As explained in!paragraph!31.4A.28, a key feature of a preference is the desire on the part of the debtor to put the beneficiary of the transaction in a better position!!in any subsequent liquidation or bankruptcy then they would have been had the transaction not taken place. )


Council tax, tbh will it matter if wife takes on this debt? If she has no funds will it just end up £1 a month, at worst a ccj. It sounds awful maybe* but realistically a BR & unemployed household won't be getting credit for a while anyway, the day-day likely won't be affected.
(*said as such a wife who ended up with the br, so I do have sympathies)

CIS

Council tax, tbh will it matter if wife takes on this debt? If she has no funds will it just end up £1 a month, at worst a ccj. It sounds awful maybe* but realistically a BR & unemployed household won't be getting credit for a while anyway, the day-day likely won't be affected.
(*said as such a wife who ended up with the br, so I do have sympathies)

The council wouldn't accept £1 per month. There are no CCJ's for council tax but Liability Orders granted by the magistrates' court - this allows the council to use various enforcement options, up to and including, committal to prison.

John_G_Jones

Madfool wrote: »

Thanks for the replies all, looks like i just need to concentrate on clearing the rent arrears then asap, then i'll file for the bankruptcy in a couple of months. There is no eviction notice as such currently, there is but it's not been in forced yet as long as i keep to the agreement of paying the agreed amount each month. If any payment was missed then the notice would then be enforced, and eviction would then happen. Which i obviously want to avoid 100% as we have children etc, i know the council could re-house the Mrs and the children but it takes time and they could end up in temporary accommodation miles away which is not good for schooling etc and would just separate the entire family.

If i stop paying everything then i could clear the rent arrears in 3 months, i'm already defaulted on everyone of my debts by 6 months+ anyway so a couple of extra months isn't going to hurt, its not the right attitude but i don't see any other way

You can’t do this either, you are attempting to stiff some creditors and treat others preferentially.

TheGardener

John_G_Jones wrote: »

You can’t do this either, you are attempting to stiff some creditors and treat others preferentially.

Yes - there is a risk - but keeping a roof over the family's head is about the only 'excuse' the OR MIGHT accept.

Madfool

Thanks for all the advice guys - So I'm looking at filing the BR End of March as i can't find a way to find the £680 fee until then.

I have a couple of other questions, or quires to see if i understand things correctly.

1. When i file, i assume i need to do an income / expenditure and if i have more than £20.00 a month then this is paid to the OR? As part of my income do i include Child Benefit? With CB included our budget shows we are in the green by £23.22 so would i pay the OR just £3.22 a month?

2. What is classed as a luxury? We have to rent our Cooker from Hughes, and i rent a laptop for work purposes on the same account. We could return the cooker, but then have nothing to cook on and the laptop i could return in 5 months once the min contract is up but i would then struggle to work lol (the Hughes account is in my partner's name not mine, and 100% up to date)

3. Mobile Phones, we currently do not pay for our mobile(s) but could i include this on our SOA?

4. Children's pocket money, would we be asked to not give them pock money any further? We currently spend £7.50 a week (£2.50 each)

5. How does the OR work out how much a family of 5 should spend on groceries each week? We budget £100 it's probably more like £80 but we have 3 very hungry children, packed lunches for school and work it doesn't come cheap. So like to make sure we have enough.

6. Savings?!? Are we allowed to save / emergency fund? We don't have one currently but having been on here the last 2 weeks, it seems we should so would like to start one @ £100 a month.

7. (another edit lol) Netflix, would we have to cancel? Is this a luxury? It's our only form of entertainment, we don't have sky or even a working TV Ariel? (least we save on tv license lol)

ANOTHER EDIT - SOA attached, we actually have less than the £20 if my figures are correct, anyone care to go through them? and advise if i have over, or under cut my spending.

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet

Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household......... 3
Number of cars owned.................... 1

Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 1699.41
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits................................ 656.4
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 2355.81

Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 725
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 116
Electricity............................. 86.6
Gas..................................... 86.6
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 64.95
Telephone (land line)................... 20
Mobile phone............................ 20
TV Licence.............................. 25
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 0
Internet Services....................... 10
Groceries etc. ......................... 450.84
Clothing................................ 33.33
Petrol/diesel........................... 160
Road tax................................ 13.59
Car Insurance........................... 36.82
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 35
Car parking............................. 10
Other travel............................ 30
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 54.17
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 40
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 6.36
Life assurance ......................... 10
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 70.83
Haircuts................................ 16.67
Entertainment........................... 35
Holiday................................. 83.33
Emergency fund.......................... 100
(Unnamed monthly expense)............... 0
Total monthly expenses.................. 2340.09


Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 300
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 300

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts

Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Rent Arrears...................2555......200.......0
Council Tax Arrears............2374.38...150.......0
Partner's CC DEBT..............4846......3.........0
Natwest........................236.......5.........0
Active Securities LTD..........273.......5.........0
Arrow Global...................300.......5.........0
Ferratum.......................357.......5.........0
Djs LTD........................357.......5.........0
Lowell Accounts x 3............1095......5.........0
Indigo Michael LTD.............541.......5.........0
Merligen Investments...........600.......5.........0
Anglian Water..................687.......5.........0
My CC DEBT (CSL)...............9099......6.........0
UK Credit......................2865......132.......0
Amigo..........................7896......197.......0
George Banco...................8268......187.......0
Total unsecured debts..........42349.38..920.......-


Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 2,355.81
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 2,340.09
Available for debt repayments........... 15.72
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 920
Amount short for making debt repayments. -904.28

Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 300
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -42,349.38
Net Assets.............................. -42,049.38

Created using the SOA calculator at
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.

Annie35

Based on other experiences here, each OR is different; some allow this, some allow more of that, couldn't second guess really.

Is CB in your name?

Oven in wife's name so they can't compel you to return it (it's her bill, nothing to do with or) unless it's a big fancy v expensive thing I guess they could cap your contribution to it as a household item, otherwise prob safe. (Why doesn't your landlord provide an oven??)

Laptop allows you to work, should be fine but definitely push to keep this if it's questioned. Assuming its reasonable cost obvs. (ie sub to design software if your a designer ok: sub to 7 online games for goofing off, not ok �� )

don't put any contract type bills down if you don't have them but no reason you wouldn't have a Giffgaff payg for emergencies.

100 food, 7.50 kids & Netflix should all be ok, 100 savings? Might be a bit much but no harm asking if everywhere else is tight.

Maybe put a small holiday fund, even a week in a caravan is a change of scene & likely be acceptable, you could split your savings fund with this possibly.

Don't forget school uniform! Legitimately expensive so count for it.

Momofthree_2

I was advised to put £800 groceries for 5 of us including a baby and a dog. I didnt.. i put £600 and OR commented it was quite low but accepted it. I also put 30 per month for school uniform (eldest at high school and genuinley costs me £300 each september :mad:

Pocket money i put in but she didn't comment.

Good luck
L

luvchocolate

Just to clarify the £20 surplus as this does come up a lot.
The O.R would take any surplus over £20..this includes the £20.
Its so important to get your S.O.A right.
Our resident Debt Doctor is very good with helping with this, likewise we do what we can to help.