Party wall question

ProStuart

Hi,


We have just received planning permission for a 2 storey extension at the rear of our house.


Throughout the planning application, our elderly neighbours have made it clear they are not happy and one consistent thing has been his insistence on a party wall agreement. He's made comments such as "I know it's only a drop in the ocean but you know you'll have to pay for the surveyor".


Our house has side access of 1m to the right before the dividing wall, followed by their garage (2.8m), followed by their 1m side access, followed by their house.


As far as I can read, the only application of the party wall act is related to the 3m/6m rule which I don't fully understand - how does anyone know how deep their existing foundations are?


Anyway, I understand I have to write a letter informing them of our intended plans and they then have 14 days to respond. If they don't respond or reject, it goes to the next stage of involving surveyors & associated costs & a party wall award.


Assuming I'm correct in this - I know nobody is a mind-reader, but does anyone have any ideas what they might be trying to achieve in rejecting? Can someone reject just because they feel like it or does he have to give solid reasons for rejecting? Who determines whether the reasons are valid or not?


Any input or experience of others appreciated!!!

cyclonebri1

They can object for any reason or even no reason I'm afraid

People can get very bloody minded when neighbours plan extensions and will object on amy grounds they can trawl up.

You neighbour is obviously clued up, most folks have never heard of the party wall act.
He does have every right to insist that you obtain this and pay your solicitors costs and his solicitors costs which actually isn't a "drop in the ocean".

You simply have to factor this in as a cost. I would try to get your head around the act but to be honest it doesn't matter to you now, the scabs, (ok depends which side of the PW you are sat), that are going to be involved do know what they are talking about and it all gets considered. Regarding depth of foundations, test digs are always carried out before building regs are approved, 2 ft sq hole next to existing wall until lower foundation edge is revealed.

It's usually all neighbourly relations out the window in these cases I'm afraid.

My own experience was pleasant and sorted by a simple letter from me accepting all work would be done under compliance with the act and that all associated costs would be mine, but we don't all have such accommodating neighbours.

ProStuart

Thanks for the quick reply.


Do you know when we start the process? Does our structural engineer need to do his bit before we present our finalised detailed plans to our neightbour?


As we stand right now, our plans are approved and our architect is working on detailed drawings for our builders. We're hoping to get the build started in May/June/July sort of timeframe.

cyclonebri1

Can't help further I'm afraid as luckily I had less objectionable neighbours and I'm being polite there.

The bottom line is they don't want you to build the extension and doing everything they can come up with to be awkward. Time may, however, repay you as in what goes around comes around.:beer:

Doozergirl

The Party Wall Act allows you to build your extension.

Your neighbour cannot 'object' to it.

The word is 'dissent' and it's only to the notice you serve on them; if they dissent to you building purely on notice then you will appoint a party wall surveyor to ensure that the processes involved in the build are satisfactory to protect the areas of buildings that fall under the Act.

The neighbour can share the surveyor to work for both of you, but they also have the option to employ their own separate surveyor and many do, sometimes to be difficult but sometimes regardless of how nice the neighbours are. You will pay for of it.

People don't understand the act at all, as is clearly being displayed in all the posts so far. It is reasonable that people want to protect their property and it isn't their responsibility to pay to ensure that happens. You can absolutely choose how you deal with it, so instead of looking at it as people being difficult, you can look at it as due diligence that people are perfectly entitled to do.

Find a surveyor who will advise on what part of act applies to your build (and serve notice on the neighbour if applicable). From there, you'll discover if they want to appoint their own surveyor or not.

When you say the garage is 2.8m, do you mean 2.8m high or 2.8m away from the boundary or 2.8m wide and against the boundary/party wall?

If there are footings belonging to the neighour within 3m and they are more shallow than your new footings, your structural engineer will specify the design of your foundations, ensuring the stability of the neighbours foundations.

That is all the Act does. It ensures safe building practice and recourse if damage occurs.

Your neighbour isn't going to prevent you from doing anything, nor can they try now.

ProStuart

On the right hand side of our house is a 1m wide side access then a brick wall.


That brick wall is one side of our neighbours garage which is 2.8m wide followed by their side access of 1m then their house. The back of their garage is parallel with the back of our existing house.


I guess my fundamental question is what is the difference between me serving notice along with ensuring all appropriate regulations are met via our structural engineer and that being accepted by my neighbour vs my neighbour dissenting that proposal?


Is there additional protection when this 2nd process kicks in that my neighbour doesn't get already with my noticed served?

Doozergirl

A fully drawn up Award with method statements, drawings, schedule of prior condition with photos, expected timescales etc.

There's a few people involved in bringing it all together but the difference is really about the level of detail and them having a representative (surveyor) that is satisfied that the correct steps are being taken. Note that their personal opinion isn't taken into account, it is all about their surveyor.

The Act applies to that garage if it doesn't have good footings. If it is a correctly built modern garage then your footings should have no need to be deeper than theirs but there are no building regulations applicable to garages, so they could well be shallow.

Your footings will be within 80cm of their garage. It is a potential worry for them even if this isn't the most involved and concerning extension ever built.

cyclonebri1

Doozergirl wrote: »

The Party Wall Act allows you to build your extension.

Your neighbour cannot 'object' to it.

The word is 'dissent' and it's only to the notice you serve on them; if they dissent to you building purely on notice then you will appoint a party wall surveyor to ensure that the processes involved in the build are satisfactory to protect the areas of buildings that fall under the Act.

The neighbour can share the surveyor to work for both of you, but they also have the option to employ their own separate surveyor and many do, sometimes to be difficult but sometimes regardless of how nice the neighbours are. You will pay for of it.


People don't understand the act at all, as is clearly being displayed in all the posts so far. It is reasonable that people want to protect their property and it isn't their responsibility to pay to ensure that happens. You can absolutely choose how you deal with it, so instead of looking at it as people being difficult, you can look at it as due diligence that people are perfectly entitled to do.

Find a surveyor who will advise on what part of act applies to your build (and serve notice on the neighbour if applicable). From there, you'll discover if they want to appoint their own surveyor or not.

When you say the garage is 2.8m, do you mean 2.8m high or 2.8m away from the boundary or 2.8m wide and against the boundary/party wall?

If there are footings belonging to the neighour within 3m and they are more shallow than your new footings, your structural engineer will specify the design of your foundations, ensuring the stability of the neighbours foundations.

That is all the Act does. It ensures safe building practice and recourse if damage occurs.

Your neighbour isn't going to prevent you from doing anything, nor can they try now.

Well since I am the only one who had answered before you posted that I must assume you were referring to me so will reply accordingly.

Maybe the word object is wrong in it's official sense but the bottom line is the neighbour "objects" to this extension in its entirety and is using the act as a shield as they have every right to do, resents may well be a better word. If you think any part of my reply is wrong you should be more precise but to bottom line remains the neighbour will cost the OP 2 sets of fees. The OP wanted the facts and I gave a clear account of what his neighbour could and seems to want to do whether you or I agree with them.

Doozergirl

Cyclonebri1, Object was definitely the wrong word because the neighbour has no power over the final outcome. They cannot object.

No solicitors are involved.

You are making assumptions that the neighbour is doing this simply to be annoying. You have spoken more about the neighbour and their (dubious) motives than the OP has. The OP has asked some pretty straightforward questions.

Neighbourly relations do not have to go out of the window if you frame PWAs correctly. In some areas it might be unusual to have formal awards, but in others it is par for the course and perfectly normal to have 2 surveyors as well. People can and do conduct themselves professionally and in a neighbourly fashion.

Rather than the PWA being something that allows neighbours to throw a spanner in the works, it is something that enables the building party to be able to carry out what they want to, whilst minimising the number of disputes any neighbour can raise later. It is a very proper thing to do.

We are in the process of building our own house and whilst some of the neighbours have objected to our planning application, I do respect their right to object and their concerns and worries. And we have to build with care to their property too, although the PWA doesn't apply to us. Older people, in particular, can be resistant to change and anxious about the impact of a building on them. We'll be benefitting from our new space, I can still have empathy for their position in order to maintain neighbourly relations.

ProStuart

Thanks all for replying - our neighbour has actually suggested we contact a PW surveyor that he's selected suggesting that we both go through the same surveyor. I've now asked this surveyor for an estimate of costs to do same and if that's in line with my expectations (ie. around £1k) then that's the route we'll take and hopefully keep on good terms with our neighbour.


When speaking to the surveyor I also managed to confirm/clarify the questions I had & I'm much more comfortable on the reasoning behind the PWA now.


Thanks again all!!

Doozergirl

Great stuff. Using their suggestion makes sense.