paypal stating refund can be made without return

soolin

sorry this is vague as it is getting very nasty and I don't want to give too many details until this gets resolved.

However, in view of this thread :

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5958574/not-obliged-to-return-items

It might be interesting to note this snippet from an email I have received from paypal after a claim was opened there for SNAD

quote " The buyer stated that the item was defective or not as described. Please be aware that due to consumer protection laws, PayPal cannot guarantee the return of your merchandise if the case is found in favor of the buyer. Please help us to resolve this issue by logging in to the Resolution Centre and providing us with any information that can help us with our investigation, such as tracking information or delivery confirmation.
If we don't receive a response from you before 18 February 2019, this case will be closed and decided in your buyer's favour."

Incidentally there is already a case open on ebay for the same item and a label for the return has been issued (paid for by me through the ebay dispute system)

I have spoken to paypal and they say they can add a requirement that item needs to be returned (thank goodness), so they have done that - but neither they nor ebay can explain how a case can be opened in both. I have been re assured by both paypal and ebay that somehow at some point the system will pick up on the fact that two cases for the same item are open - and the ebay claim *should' close .

Anyone else had 2 cases open for the same item before?

Buster_Danog

soolin wrote: »

sorry this is vague as it is getting very nasty and I don't want to give too many details until this gets resolved.

However, in view of this thread :

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5958574/not-obliged-to-return-items

It might be interesting to note this snippet from an email I have received from paypal after a claim was opened there for SNAD

quote " The buyer stated that the item was defective or not as described. Please be aware that due to consumer protection laws, PayPal cannot guarantee the return of your merchandise if the case is found in favor of the buyer. Please help us to resolve this issue by logging in to the Resolution Centre and providing us with any information that can help us with our investigation, such as tracking information or delivery confirmation.
If we don't receive a response from you before 18 February 2019, this case will be closed and decided in your buyer's favour."

Incidentally there is already a case open on ebay for the same item and a label for the return has been issued (paid for by me through the ebay dispute system)

I have spoken to paypal and they say they can add a requirement that item needs to be returned (thank goodness), so they have done that - but neither they nor ebay can explain how a case can be opened in both. I have been re assured by both paypal and ebay that somehow at some point the system will pick up on the fact that two cases for the same item are open - and the ebay claim *should' close .

Anyone else had 2 cases open for the same item before?

As in a recent case I had I guess Paypal rules are all that matter as ebay don't hold the money, but I can't see how Paypal can deny you the right to pay for postage for the item to be returned to you.

I would hope that ebay seller protection would stop you losing money but I don't know what would happen if Paypal issue a refund without the item being returned. I doubt ebay would couch up money.

soolin

Buster_Danog wrote: »

As in a recent case I had I guess Paypal rules are all that matter as ebay don't hold the money, but I can't see how Paypal can deny you the right to pay for postage for the item to be returned to you.

I would hope that ebay seller protection would stop you losing money but I don't know what would happen if Paypal issue a refund without the item being returned. I doubt ebay would couch up money.

I protected myself before posting this account - I phoned PayPal and they have added the condition that buyer must return item at their own cost before refund will be made.

However as at this point I still have both an eBay claim and a PayPal claim open for the same item.

bris

I've never known that to be possible.


I have only had a handful of cases in the time I have been with Ebay when they first started.


One of the cases I open in Ebay then heard it was better to use the paypay resolution centre instead so tried to open a Paypal case but was refused as one was open in Ebay.


I think this was when they were the same linked company at the time. As PayPal is now separate from Ebay maybe things have changed?

soolin

bris wrote: »

I've never known that to be possible.


I have only had a handful of cases in the time I have been with Ebay when they first started.


One of the cases I open in Ebay then heard it was better to use the paypay resolution centre instead so tried to open a Paypal case but was refused as one was open in Ebay.


I think this was when they were the same linked company at the time. As PayPal is now separate from Ebay maybe things have changed?

I asked them that but both ebay and paypal say the case is still linked and they can only assume it takes a few hours for the system to recognise a duplicate. They suggested the ebay case would probably close in my favour this morning, but I've checked and it hasn't. I also have a stonking neg from buyer now as well, but have written confirmation from ebay that they will remove this if I phone them- but I don't know if I am too early but all contact methods show as unavailable.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

It's strange that Paypal want tracking from you as the seller for a not as described claim, is it possible the buyer has done a chargeback with their card provider?

eBay told me the other day they couldn't remove any feedback whilst a return is open (as in the system simply won't let them do it), would be interesting to know if you have any success.

soolin

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

It's strange that Paypal want tracking from you as the seller for a not as described claim, is it possible the buyer has done a chargeback with their card provider?

eBay told me the other day they couldn't remove any feedback whilst a return is open (as in the system simply won't let them do it), would be interesting to know if you have any success.

I asked them that and they seem to think it is a generic email that doesn't really cover the situation. There is no suggestion, once you look at the actual claim that this is a chargeback for INR or fraud, it is very clear it is an SNAD and buyer has item. As usual these anomalies appear to be brushed off when you query them - which I think is a worry.

OK, My ebay case has been closed in my favour and the return label no longer shows, ebay agreed that paypal is the dominant partner for the financial element and so the paypal claim basically knocks out the ebay one. Ebay have also removed the negative feedback.

If buyer returns item now at own cost I will of course refund them in line with the paypal claim (money is being held appropriately).

soolin

Just as a final update. I received an email from paypal saying that they had escalated the claim, found for the buyer and refunded them - but that I would NOT be charged and that therefore my held funds were released. They confirmed buyer will be told not to return item.

I am content with that, hopefully buyer is happy with his full refund- and I have not had to pay out any return postage, nor have I lost any funds.