Lost case at court. Court gave wrong advice re. appealing judgement and now I have problems

Mickey_Nine

I was taken to court over a private parking ticket which I thought I'd easily beat due to the charge not being valid. The judge was unfamiliar with POFA and ruled against me.

At the hearing the judge said I could not appeal the decision so I would have to make a formal appeal within 21 days.

Around 18 days later, I phoned the court to ask a few questions about using the correct forms etc and I also asked to clarify the deadline for the court to receive the appeal. Whether it was including the 21st day after the hearing. I was told numerous times that the 21 days started from the date on which the order was drawn which was around 6 days after the date of the actual hearing. I therefore spent a bit more time checking things before deciding to risk £120 for the appeal. I ended up submitting the appeal and made sure to do it within the 21 days from the date I was given by the court over the phone.

I then get a letter saying my appeal has been struck out as it was not received within the 21 day limit. It was processed and dated 2 days after I submitted it. Which would make outside the 21 day window that I was advised.

I called up the court and queried this and explained it was submitted 2 days before the date on which it was processed and therefore is with the time limit. The court employee checked the system and agreed it was sent with the 21 days. They suggested I send the e-mail proof of receipt that it was sent the 2 days before it was processed. Which I did.

Next thing, I get a letter from a debt recovery company. I call them and send them a letter explaining the situation.

I then call the court again and tell them I'm concerned I got a letter from a debt recovery company when the appeal is still up the air.

I explain the situation and I get yet another court employee confirming my appeal was received within the 21 day limit. They said they would refer it all for a judge to look at.

Next, I get a letter from the court with a comment from a judge confirming it was received out of the 21 day window. As it was the hearing date plus 21 days. Which obviously contradicts what three court employees have told me. It also says I need to make an application for a time extension and to set aside the order.

I call the court and I'm told I need to pay £100 for the extension and then £255 for the set aside. I am livid.

I call again to clarify something and I speak to someone else and they tell me something different. That I just need to pay the £255 for the set aside.

So that's my £120 appeal fee, plus a £255 set aside fee for a £200 judgment. All because the court employees have no idea what they're talking about. I am absolutely furious they've put me in this position that I need to risk £375 for an appeal.

I made sure to keep a record of my calls and have provided transcripts to the court but I have no idea what the best course of action is now.

I assume it would be challenging to take a court to court for such downright negligence.

waamo

You should ask this on the parking ticket forum really. There are several solicitors post on that board. The general advice they give is don't appeal unless a glaring error in fact or law has been made.

Appeals are notoriously difficult to win. Often more so than the original.

Mickey_Nine

I did wonder is this was the best place to post. I figured it had some general ness as the main issue is the ineptitude of the court staff.

I will ask for it to be moved.

CakeCrusader

Hi.


I'd take a look into making a complaint about the court. You can do this here; https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-courts-and-tribunals-service/about/complaints-procedure Keep all of your documents and see how it goes.

Les79

Well, two thoughts:


1. Why didn't you abide by the rules laid out in the private car park?


2. Why did you query this 18 days later, instead of a day or two later?


I find it interesting how you are arguing TWO technicalities for the same issue. Comical.


Unfortunately I can't help you much, and I would recommend you visit the forum that waamo mentioned. This is the "consumer rights" part and your "consumer rights" are clear (though you may use the argument that signage etc wasn't); if you pay then you can use the car park. If you don't pay then you can't use it.

Mickey_Nine

1. The rules of the car park were abided by. The parking company seem to think it's reasonable to expect a permit to be able to teleport between a vehicle and a property.

2. This is irrelevant. Had I have done it a day or two, the outcome would be the same.


Yes, the actual appeal is based on a technicality. Such is the way of the unreasonable world of private parking companies. I'd hardly call the second issue a technicality. The issue is three different court employees have told me the same wrong information regarding the 21 day appeal appeal which contradicts a judge. There is clearly a training issue here and a member of the public should not be negatively impacted due to this.



I put it in this forum as the issue is not specific to parking tickets. Anyone that wishes to appeal any judgment could get burned by the court giving out wrong information.

Les79

Mickey_Nine wrote: »

1. The rules of the car park were abided by. The parking company seem to think it's reasonable to expect a permit to be able to teleport between a vehicle and a property.

2. This is irrelevant. Had I have done it a day or two, the outcome would be the same.


Yes, the actual appeal is based on a technicality. Such is the way of the unreasonable world of private parking companies. I'd hardly call the second issue a technicality. The issue is three different court employees have told me the same wrong information regarding the 21 day appeal appeal which contradicts a judge. There is clearly a training issue here and a member of the public should not be negatively impacted due to this.



I put it in this forum as the issue is not specific to parking tickets. Anyone that wishes to appeal any judgment could get burned by the court giving out wrong information.

Righto. Listen, I don't care either way. Good luck with your situation and I hope you get a favourable resolution.


I would also strongly recommend that you follow waamo's advice

unholyangel

waamo wrote: »

You should ask this on the parking ticket forum really. There are several solicitors post on that board. The general advice they give is don't appeal unless a glaring error in fact or law has been made.

Appeals are notoriously difficult to win. Often more so than the original.

You can't appeal just because the judge got the facts wrong - else people would appeal every decision as the losers version of facts would usually differ from the winners and/or judges.

Its if you didn't have a chance to respond (because you didn't receive notification for example), the judge didn't follow CPRs or they made an error in judgement (ie application of law).

Which is a major flaw in our justice system imo given I've seen some judges make blatant errors (seemingly making up details that aren't corroborated by either parties evidence/statements).

waamo

unholyangel wrote: »

You can't appeal just because the judge got the facts wrong - else people would appeal every decision as the losers version of facts would usually differ from the winners ).

It depends on the fact that was wrong. If it's one that affects the result then it may be possible. For example a judge decides, as a matter of fact you were in a car park at a certain time so overstayed where as in fact you were 100 miles away and can show it then an appeal may be possible.

In saying that I get your point a minor error of fact will not be heard. A major error of fact may not even cut the ice. It has to be so significant as to potentially affect the outcome of the case and the bar for that is ridiculously high.

Even then it doesn't guarantee winning. People underestimate the difficult of an appeal

stragglebod

If you had the evidence at the time and chose not to introduce it for the initial hearing, you'll do well to get the court to give you another go.


I'd also be surprised if several of the court staff got such a basic fact so fundamentally wrong. I'm thinking miscommunication. A quick google of the EX340 leaflet makes it very clear it's 21 days from the decision.

waamo

stragglebod wrote: »

If you had the evidence at the time and chose not to introduce it for the initial hearing, you'll do well to get the court to give you another go.


I'd also be surprised if several of the court staff got such a basic fact so fundamentally wrong. I'm thinking miscommunication. A quick google of the EX340 leaflet makes it very clear it's 21 days from the decision.

Indeed AIUI you cannot introduce new evidence. If you got it wrong then it's your bad luck. The judge can only go on what's in front of them and if what is in front of them is wrong, or missing, then you've messed it up big time.

I would encourage the op to think long and hard before launching a potentially futile and expensive appeal.