Section 21 advice & court - please advise on how this works.....

blue_monkey_2

Hi all,

I am sure this has been asked a dozen times before but I wonder if someone can offer some advice on Section 21 and eviction.

My mum wants to sell the house that we rent from her (she lives around the corner) - there is no legal formal letting agreement between us but, because we pay her, there is a 'financial arrangement' so the same has to apply. The problem is that we are having trouble getting anywhere to live and the council have told me this morning that we have to get this first - and I am so confused by it all. We have been on the housing list for 8 years and have turned to them. In the meantime we have asked my mum to wait until after Xmas and she has agreed on doing this (when we spoke to the school last week some things have been mentioned and my son has to be assessed for special needs and I want to get this moving first before dealing with packing and the like).

So, I have spoken to the council this morning and mum has to serve us a Section 21 notice and give us a date of 2 rent periods in which we have to leave. The lady at the council has then told us that they do not have to house us until it has been to court and a judge has given us a date that we need to vacate the property.

So, my question is this (and I am sorry as I am so confused by it all). We will get served the notice on 1st Jan as we usually pay rent on 7th - that will mean we have to be out on 7th March, right? So, when 7th March comes do we just leave even if we have nowhere or do we say no, we are not going and then Mum has to apply to the court to make us leave (which court and how does she apply?) Will they then give us an eviction notice? Will this look bad on us if we have found somewhere to rent privately but have not yet moved in (will this go against us at all)? If she has a buyer, how will she be able to tell her buyer when she has vacant posession if it has not been to court? How will the court insist we leave if she does not have a buyer?

This is such a minefield, we are looking but because we have a bad credit rating and because my husband is on (what is considered - although not to us!!) low pay the Letting and Estate Agents make you feel like carp for even enquiring on somewhere that they have on their books - even to the point of being rude about it. It's really demoralising.

So, if someone can please advise that would be wonderful, thank you. I know I have nothing to worry about for today but I need to know where we go from here, how long the court stuff takes (getting a date, and how long the judge gives, etc...) and would it be better she serves it 1st December if it is going to be 6 months.

To be honest, I just want to get things sorted as I have enough to worry about right now - I just thought it would be easy to get somewhere else to live (private rent) and I could not have been more wrong!!

I am not looking for a lecture by the people who say we should not be going to court and all that, we will have no choice if she wants to sell and we have nowhere to live. On am looking for advice on what we do and who we go to because neither us or mum has any clue with stuff like this.

TIA

sooz

The council doesn't want you to make yourselves intentionally homeless.

If your mum wants to sell, the sooner she serves you notice the better, before the 6th of December, as you say your rent day is the 7th.

Make sure that she gets the dates absolutely right! She wants you out on the 6th not the 7th.

After 2 months, you must not move out. This doesn't mean that you have to stop paying your rent though.

Then I think it goes like this.......

She applies to the court, and you all wait for a court date.
The court will give you a date to leave, and you still have to stay put
Then your mum has to apply back to the court for a bailiff, and you have to wait in till the bailiff comes.
Only then will you not have made yourselves intentionally homeless.

The system sucks, but that is what you need to do.

How long this all takes will depend on how busy your local court is.

blue_monkey_2

Thanks Sooz,

OK, so it is the local court. Can she not 'complete' and get a date to move out with the other buyers (Sorry, I don;t know the right phrases either) before she has a date for us to be evicted. Wold this look bad when they do reports against the house? That she has had to take us to court? The council told me that she has to put the section 21 in when she goes to the Estate Agent which is why I thought January when she goes to the EA the right time, maybe December would be better.

I don't want to affect mum selling the house, she clearly does not want it anymore (for whatever reason and those are still not clear) so I just want things to be done the right way to avoid any more hassle. Will it look weird if I help her with the court stuff? I don;t want anyone to think that I am making her do this to us but we help with all her paperworks, bill, etc... so she has no-one else to ask really. But then it'll look weird if we all go in happy and smiling, right? Will the court tell her that we have to stay?

I feel awful for knowing all of this, as I said, this is the very last resort but we can't find anywhere else. I am applying to another couple of Housing Assossiations and also a local landowner who has property but I have not done this because I was trying to find more info on my son and everything else kind of slipped out the window. I am going to get this done this week. He has a lovely property on the website available that is PERFECT for us and for what we need but it is about 12 miles away and I think it'll be too far to go back and forth to school as I have to go twice in the morning and once in the afternoon and the old petrol will rac up a bit then. My son really has to stay at this school because of the learning support he is getting so I don't mind driving.

*Sigh*

Can I ask what the baliff does, will he just change the locks or throw our stuff out the house? What if we have nowhere to go on that day? You scared me more now.

I am really sorry for all the questions (especially this early on a Monday).

sooz

Sorry, didn't mean to worry you. I don't think anyone goes around throwing anything! (edit...you might not need to wait for the bailiff, your mum having the bailiff's warrant may be enough show that you are not intentionally homeless)

It is just a process that you have to go through.

(i have not personally done this, so can't really advise as to what happens....just the basic theory....i'm sure someone will be along who knows the exact procedure)

Try looking here http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-150.cfm for more information.

blue_monkey_2

Thanks Sooz - bailiff sounds worrying, LOL. I am trying to forget about it until after Xmas and then worry about it but easier said than done I guess. I know it is going to be a good few months, the whole process sounds a nightmare. I just wish we could find somewhere and be gone next week. I did think it was going to be easy to find somewhere though. Thanks for setting my mind at rest.

silvercar

Agree with all sooz's advice. WHen the council rehouse you varies between councils. Some may offer you something as soon as you have a court date, others may wait until the baliff is at the door. Bear in mind that what is offered may initially be B&B or hostel housing; it could take weeks to get a home. If you went for private housing you are more in control, though finding something suitable, at a rent you can afford, may be difficult. Try to find out what housing benefit you would be eligible for.

As far as your Mum's sale goes. Her solicitor should be advising that she shouldn't exchange contracts with her buyer until you are out of the house. Otherwise you get the situation where she has legally signed up to sell the house with vacant possession (ie you out) on a certain day and you have the council telling you not to leave. This then puts you in a impossible situation; if you leave you will be homeless, if you don't leave your Mum will have financial penalties for being in breach of contract. Exchange of contracts occur when the buyer has all the legal work done and his mortgage offer in place. This is usually 4-6 weeks after your Mum accepting the offer price but can drag on.

sooz

Please don't worry about this.

Have a look at landlordzone.co.uk, and make sure that your mum gets the paperwork and dates of your section 21 absolutely right.

There are 2 different notices, depending on whether your contract is still in a fixed term, or has gone periodic (which makes this a little trickier as you don't have a written contract...so please check that she has filled in the right one and got the dates right...i guess it's periodic as you never had a fixed term )

You will still be there for Xmas, and probably a few months after. But going through this process will move you higher up the points system for a council house. Getting your son assessed may increase your points too.

You could also speak to the CAB if you are worried about what happens.

I can't see any reason why your mum can't market her house after she's served you the section 21. She won't have to say that you don't plan to move out...in the meantime you might have found somewhere to rent privately...she's not to know. And you can help her by keeping the place tidy for all her viewings (easier said than done with children!)

franklee

You really want to read in detail what's happened to someone who has just gone through this, there is just such a thread here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=553259

It's long but I suggest you read it all in detail!

Basically if you want council housing you must not make yourself intentionally homeless. This means you must remain in the property till housed by the council and usually that means going through the whole court process right up to the bailiffs being due.

To sum up the stages:

1. Landlord decides he wants the tenant to leave and serves a Section 21 notice requiring possession with a minimum of two months notice.

2. On expiry of the notice the tenant is still in occupation. At this point the landlord applies to court for accelerated possession, this does not need a hearing.

3. If the S21 is valid the court awards possession.

4. The tenant has still refused to leave by the date the possession order states the landlord goes back to court to appoint bailiffs.

5. Bailiffs arrive to remove the tenant. They will eject the tenant and change the locks. I would recommend you get your stuff out just before this and put in into storage.

The length of time between stages 2-5 depends on how busy the courts are, it could be quite a few weeks or even months.

You mum should not exchange contracts on the house sale until she knows for sure your leaving date as if she can't provide vacant possession on completion of the sale there will be huge penalties.

If you leave voluntarily before the full eviction process has been gone through you will wreck your chance to get council housing.

On the other hand Mum could furnish you with a proper tenancy agreement and sell the property on to an investor with a tenant in-situ. Although mum may get less for the property like this it will help her monthly cash flow. You said before mum can't afford the mortgage payments without your rent. So if there is a gap between your leaving and the sale she may fall into arrears and be risking her lender repossessing.

blue_monkey_2

Hi again,

Thank you for your post regarding the other thread - I spent today reading it, it took me about 4 hours in all, LOL, I got there in the end though. What a minefield, I just kept thinking about all that poor woman had to do. I am hoping that it does not come to that and we are going to start saving and seeing if we can find a cheap B&B or something to get us by.

I also had a look on the landlord website, I seem to have spent the rest of today reading about section 21 and I think i pretty much have that side sorted out and know what to put in the letter - it is such a headache as I have to do it all for mum as well and half of me feels bitter over it (very) and the other half feels relef in knowing that sooner or later we will be out of here. It is very difficult, we don;t have fixed heating for example, and just 2 days before mum told us she was selling we spent £300 on fixed timered heating for a couple of the room upstairs and that was a complete waste of my husbands money that we could have been using to save towards a depsoit or rent. Little things like this are getting me down right now. Do we spend hours renovating it and getting it looking good - maybe it'll not be what the new people want and will paint over it all anyway. So many things I could bore you with, but I won't.

Can you please tell me how mum applies to the court and how much it is going to cost her. Also, I did read that if we refuse to leave we will then have to pay for this so can someone please clarify this for me. Ironically we'll probably have to end up lending her the money to pay for putting the court order in as well.

I haven't really slept for the last week to be honest. I am emotionally exhausted and drained by it everything. i feel I could sleep standing up and I am fed up of trying to hold it together and being happy and amiling about it to everyones face when all I want to do is scream and cry.

My son is having his assessment tomorrow with the health visitor and I need to make an appointment for the GP for the referral. I wake really early or can't get to sleep as I have the same things going around and around in my head. I lie there thinking about all the stuff I need to chuck out or put into storage and my brain just starts to whirr the minute I wake.

Anyway, sorry, I needed to offload that, can someone let me know about the further costs that are going to be involved in us refusing to leave. Thank you.

SquatNow

Be advised that that still doesn't guaranty you getting a council house... they might just put you in a B&B short/long term.

You may have a child but if people with 2 children keep applying they will be in front of you in the queue.

It used to be you simply joined the list and waited to get to the top, but since most councils have sold all their houses it's rare for anything to become available.

blue_monkey_2

Squatnow, TBH we have no option beleive it or not, if we have to go into a B&B then we will - after all, beggars can't be choosers. I don't want to have to go through courts and be evicted, put my stuff into storage and upheave the kids, maybe drive to and from school 3 times a day -as I have told the woman at the council - we have no choice. We can't rent unless we can find someone private, we have no one we can ask 'favours' from by cleeping on the floor. The woman has told me I might end up in a hostle - I am happy with this if it means that, eventually, we will get somewhere to live. I know the score and I am being realistic about this, however, the LA DO have to put us somewhere and I am happy with anywhere. She has told me that 'they are housing people who have xx' points. She is even suggesting ways to me that will mean I get extra points but I am not oging to lie about things, if I dont ave them I don't have them.

If you read my other post (which I think you did) we have debts from when my husband lots his job and the letting agent said we would not get anything, nor does OH earn enough money to get us somewhere to rent - it is too expensive around here. So, we have no other option, I am in the midst of trying to find storage for my stuff, after Xmas I am starting packing and getting it into storage, this is huge for us - I have to close my business and stick everything into storage, everything i earn between now and Xmas is to pay for the storage costs for one year my pets have to go to foster homes or to the cat home, however, I won't upheave my kids from school and I am prepared to spend the day running them from a to b if I have to to ensure they get the stability at their schools as my son gets learning support at the moment and I don't want him losing this.

Oh and by the way, I do have 2 children, one of whom is being given his own teaching assistant as they think he might have problems such as Dyspraxia or ADHD, the thought of having him boucing off the walls and trashing everything in just the one room we will be living in and waking everyone else at 4am because he is going to be in the same room as us all, makes me warm on the inside - NOT!! But, as I have said before, we have no choice as we have nothing else and can't get anything else. The council have told us what we have to do to make sure everything is done right in regard to the above and we can make sure it does not jepordise our homeless case - if they did not want to help us then they would not give us the advice we need, they would have fobbed us off and sent us to the CAB or something. I AM holding onto that positive thought because it is at times like this when you realise how many people you have around you that actually WANT TO or CAN help you out - and as it stands we have no-one which is pretty depressing as it goes.

What makes me cross though is that if I was an alcoholic, drug user or was popping out kids like they are going out of fashion, I would be top of the list. Decent, law abiding tax payers don't get now't these days and we have been told so mnay times to lie to them to 'get what we can' I can;t even begin to tell you. However, for fear of being found out and struck off altogether then I won't do this and prefer to be honest and above board about everything.