£100 fine when I sent my return!!!

Lifeisbutadream

I just got a Construction Industry Scheme Notification of Charge and Notice to pay for £100.

I sent my return on 5th October - in plenty of time for the deadline of 19th October.

My cheque was cashed on 15th October.

Because you send the cash and the return separetely - cashing the cheque is not proof that I sent the return - but why on earth would I send a cheque without sending the return???

Apparantly I now have to appeal! I am so cross - does anyone have any experience with this? why should I pay £100 if they did not recieve it! I sent it! do I have to chanse everything I send, just in case the person I sent it to didnt recieve it???

Are they just trying to get an extra bit of cash from me or what???

Bean_Counter

Do you send the returns electronically or on paper? We submit electronically and get an e-mail confirmation that it has been received.

I know that they were not charging late return penalties for the first six months and October was the first month that they were.

What proof do you have that you submitted it? Do HMRC have the return now, which would imply that they have had it all along?

Lifeisbutadream

I sent it on paper.

I sent the return on 5th October, and I sent the cheque on the same day.

I went on holiday on 15th October until 30th - my cheque was cashed the same day we went on holiday.

I had someone opening and dealing with the post whilst we were away but nothing arrived from CIS.

On 31st I got my return back with a letter saying I hadnt signed it (obviously not on purpose!) so I signed it and sent it straight back - they should have received it the next day as I sent it first class. They are saying that they recieved it on 5th November.

I dont know what else I could have done??? There was a postal strike at the time, but that wasnt my fault (I know not theirs either, but why should I pay???) they got the money owed to them, I dont understand the problem?

Hoddie_2

I dont know what else I could have done???

You could have signed it the first time! By not doing so the declaration you're making is worthless to them. Given the postal strike I'd be surprised if the fine wasn't cancelled on appeal, but they may argue that they are not responsible for your error and/or the industrial action affecting the mail - they may suggest that you were aware it would be late but chose to post it rather than hand deliver it to an Enquiry Centre or file online (if these are even options - I don't know).

dejongj

If it happened as you described you'll be surprised to hear HMRC get thousands of those kind of submissions across various taxes and duties...These are generally purely stalling techniques to avoid having to paid the true amount at the right time....It gets tried on so often with exactly those kind of reasons that you describe that it will be very hard for you to proof otherwise.

The duty of care is firmly with you, 1st checking that you sign the forms, secondly the royal mail strike is not regarded as an excuse you would have had to find alternative methods...

Special measures do get put in place for 'acts of god' like the floodings and foot of mouth restrictions...But a strike that was announced is no excuse...

Lifeisbutadream

dejongj wrote: »

If it happened as you described you'll be surprised to hear HMRC get thousands of those kind of submissions across various taxes and duties...These are generally purely stalling techniques to avoid having to paid the true amount at the right time....It gets tried on so often with exactly those kind of reasons that you describe that it will be very hard for you to proof otherwise.

The duty of care is firmly with you, 1st checking that you sign the forms, secondly the royal mail strike is not regarded as an excuse you would have had to find alternative methods...

Special measures do get put in place for 'acts of god' like the floodings and foot of mouth restrictions...But a strike that was announced is no excuse...

The cheque goes to a separate place. The cheque was sent at the same time and cashed within the correct timescale - if I was trying to avoid paying, surely I would have not signed the cheque, not the declaration?

I sent everything on the 5th, which was the first day I could possibly have sent it.

I am not using the strike as an excuse, I am trying to work out how it did not get there!

Lifeisbutadream

Hoddie wrote: »

You could have signed it the first time! By not doing so the declaration you're making is worthless to them. Given the postal strike I'd be surprised if the fine wasn't cancelled on appeal, but they may argue that they are not responsible for your error and/or the industrial action affecting the mail - they may suggest that you were aware it would be late but chose to post it rather than hand deliver it to an Enquiry Centre or file online (if these are even options - I don't know).

As in above post, I obviously didnt not sign on purpose. This is only the second form I have even sent! Not signing the form did not make the amount of money I sent worthless. I couldnt have filed it online as it is not set up yet. I dont know whether there is an enquiry centre or not - it wouldnt have even crossed my mind due to posting it 14 days before it was due.

full-time-mum

Hearing your story, I'm so glad I went the on-line route.

It took a while to set up and I had a few problems with passwords but after that, it was fairly straight forward and I got a confirmation number the minute I pressed submit. I would certainly recommend you consider it for next time.

I hope that you get it sorted out, it does seem a little mean. You obviously weren't avoiding tax as you had sent your cheque.

Pennywise

Yes, it is harsh - but let's be honest, the HMRC fines are just another way of raising money for the govt to waste. I have very extensive dealings with the tax office, as an accountant, and I regard certain sections of their staff as traffic wardens. Just like parking and speeding offences, the vast majority of the time, nothing detrimental has happened, no-one was inconvenienced, but you still have to pay the fine. Some HMRC sections act just the same - it is no use reasoning with them, they are just jobsworths and if the law says you have to pay a penalty for doing something wrong, then you have to. End of story. That's not to say you shouldn't write and appeal and "hope" that your letter lands on the desk of someone with a little bit of compassion and common sense - be polite, respectful, outline the facts, tell them the tax due was paid on time, appeal to their better nature, and you may just get off this time.

Lifeisbutadream

It probably wouldnt annoy me so much if the whole tax route was different. I am an unpaid tax collector for CIS and VAT plus income tax!

If we were 'dodgy' and just took cash for everything (which, as a building business we could easily do!) I wouldnt have to do all this extra work, plus get fines on top! I would also probably be driving a better car and have the new carpets I desperately want!

Just another case of making the honest ones pay again!

Bean_Counter

Lifeisbutadream wrote: »

I am an unpaid tax collector for CIS and VAT plus income tax!

You add pensions, student loans, CSA arrestments, council tax etc arrestments, charity donations, savings schemes and no doubt a load of others to the list. Unfortunately part and parcel of being in business.