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Teachers' Pensions Error

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  • Brynsam
    Brynsam Posts: 3,643 Forumite
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    polymaff wrote: »
    I could understand if the discrepancy was "in my wellies"'s 95p per annum, but Mrs P is being hit for over £200 per annum in perpetuity.


    TPS are generous enough to say that no attempt will be made to recover the overpayments made to date!


    It doesn't seem right.

    Unwelcome, yes - but if your wife had been underpaid by 2% I'm sure you'd be more than happy to have the error corrected rather than ignored. She's had the benefit of overpayments for some time, which aren't being reclaimed; and going forward, will receive the correct pension. It's the taxpayer who is generous enough to cover the cost of the overpayments, by the way...
  • polymaff
    polymaff Posts: 3,958 Forumite
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    edited 7 February 2019 at 7:39PM
    Brynsam wrote: »
    Unwelcome, yes - but if your wife had been underpaid by 2% I'm sure you'd be more than happy to have the error corrected rather than ignored. She's had the benefit of overpayments for some time, which aren't being reclaimed; and going forward, will receive the correct pension. It's the taxpayer who is generous enough to cover the cost of the overpayments, by the way...


    What a foolish posting. You have no idea how my wife, or I, would react to being overpaid and yet you jump to an insulting and defamatory conclusion of which "I'm sure". You then follow it with other uninformed speculation.
  • hyubh
    hyubh Posts: 3,799 Forumite
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    polymaff wrote: »
    What a foolish posting. You have no idea how my wife, or I, would react to being overpaid and yet you jump to an insulting and defamatory conclusion of which "I'm sure". You then follow it with other uninformed speculation.

    Not sure how it is 'defamatory' to assume an individual would want what they are due once found to be underpaid... It's also true to say TPS payments are made out of general taxation - that's just how the scheme works.

    That said, sticking to facts, if the error uncovered had been in the other direction (i.e. a GMP issue that meant your wife had been underpaid), the underpayment would be made good, in full (not just going forward), and with interest. This is generally true across the whole DB pension sector, it's just that public sector schemes tend to have extra pressure to be generous when it comes to reclaiming overpayments (or rather not properly reclaiming them).
  • Marcon
    Marcon Posts: 15,922 Forumite
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    edited 7 February 2019 at 10:07PM
    polymaff wrote: »
    What a foolish posting. You have no idea how my wife, or I, would react to being overpaid and yet you jump to an insulting and defamatory conclusion of which "I'm sure". You then follow it with other uninformed speculation.

    The post referred to underpayment - and I don't think anyone on this site is in doubt how you'd react, given that you've just told us how you and your wife have reacted to her being overpaid! There is no 'uninformed speculation' in the sentences which follow, which are entirely factual.
    Googling on your question might have been both quicker and easier, if you're only after simple facts rather than opinions!  
  • polymaff
    polymaff Posts: 3,958 Forumite
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    hyubh wrote: »
    Not sure how it is 'defamatory'

    In the implication that she'd react differently depending on which way the benefit swung. If they made a good case she'd return any overpayment.

    HOWEVER, I'm looking for data and information - not foolish speculation. Thanks to the majority who provided the former.

    Looking to TPS to provide more data hasn't helped. The Total Pension historical data for each pension year on the TPS website is, today, totally different from that that was notified year by year and there are now anomalies such as one year where a Total Pension of over 13,000GBP resulted in a year where the gross monthly figures never exceeded 800GBP.
  • Brynsam
    Brynsam Posts: 3,643 Forumite
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    edited 7 February 2019 at 10:09PM
    polymaff wrote: »
    In the implication that she'd react differently depending on which way the benefit swung. If they made a good case she'd return any overpayment.

    HOWEVER, I'm looking for data and information - not foolish speculation. Thanks to the majority who provided the former.

    But her reaction would have been different: she'd hardly say magnanimously that she doesn't want the shortfall made good, would she? People always prefer to find they will be paid more, rather than being told they will get less - that's human nature for you! it has nothing to do with honesty, integrity or anything else. Pointing out the 'opposite case' often helps people to understand the situation better, even if they don't like it.

    Data and information on what? The source of the error has been pointed out to your wife. No repayment is required; she will simply receive her correct pension going forward.

    Perhaps contacting TPAS would be helpful: https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk
  • hyubh
    hyubh Posts: 3,799 Forumite
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    polymaff wrote: »
    In the implication that she'd react differently depending on which way the benefit swung.

    To assume she would just brush off an underpayment due to an error of someone else would be odd, not the converse.
    If they made a good case she'd return any overpayment.

    The GMP component of your wife's TPS pension has been treated either fully or partly as additional excess in error. Whether your wife thinks this to be a good enough reason to rectify is beside the point, it was an administrative error concerning the pension actually due according to statute.
    HOWEVER, I'm looking for data and information

    OK, how about answering my question in post 11...
    Looking to TPS to provide more data hasn't helped. The Total Pension historical data for each pension year on the TPS website is, today, totally different from that that was notified year by year and there are now anomalies such as one year where a Total Pension of over 13,000GBP resulted in a year where the gross monthly figures never exceeded 800GBP.

    Compile old payslips for the pension and see if the whole pension was increased by the previous September's CPI annual figure or not (RPI before 2011). Google 'Pension Increase Order <year>' to find the applicable percentages. If the whole pension has been fully increased each year, the pension is at least partly based on pre-April 1997 membership, and your wife did not pay E-rate NI contributions during that time, the pension was overpaid because the GMP component was not accounted for.
  • polymaff
    polymaff Posts: 3,958 Forumite
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    hyubh wrote: »
    The GMP component of your wife's TPS pension has been treated either fully or partly as additional excess in error.


    May have been. I need to work out if this justifies such a significant reduction. That could explain the 13,000GBP figure still quoted in the current TPS data, although, as I mentioned yesterday, this figure was not the one used as a basis for pension payments that particular year.

    hyubh wrote: »
    OK, how about answering my question in post 11...

    hyubh wrote: »
    You sure? What are the calculations...?.


    Inspection of the breakdown of the two pensions, Teacher's and State.

    hyubh wrote: »
    Compile old payslips for the pension and see if the whole pension was increased by the previous September's CPI annual figure or not (RPI before 2011). Google 'Pension Increase Order <year>' to find the applicable percentages. If the whole pension has been fully increased each year, the pension is at least partly based on pre-April 1997 membership, and your wife did not pay E-rate NI contributions during that time, the pension was overpaid because the GMP component was not accounted for.

    Downloaded that data yesterday - and determining the pension history is the next task.

    This, by the way, is the third time in five years that the TPS have made unexpected, significant technical corrections to my wife's teacher's pension.
  • JoeCrystal
    JoeCrystal Posts: 3,451 Forumite
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    polymaff wrote: »
    This, by the way, is the third time in five years that the TPS have made unexpected, significant technical corrections to my wife's teacher's pension.

    Ouch, that makes your wife's frustration more understandable. Was it the same reasons for the first two or something else? Hope it gets resolved eventually.
  • polymaff
    polymaff Posts: 3,958 Forumite
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    JoeCrystal wrote: »
    Ouch, that makes your wife's frustration more understandable. Was it the same reasons for the first two or something else? Hope it gets resolved eventually.


    Well, the jury is still out on the third. The first two were related to a deferred - and then claimed - state pension.
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