Self assessment tax penalties - help for appeal

colouk

Hi all,

Before I start, I know that everything was my fault, I am just trying to see what grounds I have for an appeal. I feel terrible and ashamed already and penalties will severely affect my financial and professional future.

Long story short - apparently I registered for self assessment when full-time student in 2013 for student job didn't actually end up doing. Looking back at emails, in order to sign up to this company, I needed to give them my UTR, so I think I thought it was the tax equivalent of a national insurance number, so nothing significant needing follow up. I was a full time student Sept 2009- Sept 2014 then lived and worked abroad Sept 2014- Sept 2018.

2019, am back in UK and just set up a limited company and registered for self assessment, my new details triggered post to be sent to my new address regarding the tax years 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 stating that I have over £5k in penalties to pay due to not filing tax returns.

I honestly don't remember filing for self assessment but I clearly did it naively thinking it was just what you do to get paid for student jobs. Of course I accept responsibility there but it was an honest mistake.

I rang HMRC as soon as I got this letter and they said I had to file for these tax years via post and then appeal them by post if I wanted to.

Does anyone have any view on what to focus on in my appeal? I was thinking the fact that I have never actually worked as self-employed during that time, do not owe any tax, and did not intentionally ignore any correspondence or responsibility. In addition, for 1.5 years in the tax years in question (14-16) was not a UK resident for tax purposes. HMRC were clearly sending me post to my old university address. Of course the rule is that you should inform them if you move, but in my ignorant student mind, I had not understood that I was under a different tax status.

Also, should I pay them fine then file my returns and then appeal? Or file and appeal and then what to see about the fines?

Another addition is that they told me that tax years since 2016 have been cancelled as they were made aware of my updated situation. This seems odd to me because I never told them I was no longer self-employed since I hadn't realised that I was registered as self-employed in the first place. The only thing I can think of is that I always told the student loan company when I was employed full time and moved address, but then that would have meant my circumstances changed from 2014, not 2016. Also, if they were using student finance details, then surely they would have seen my updated addresses. Any thoughts on this?

Is the fact that I am filing and appealing so many years down the line going to seriously affect my chances?

Thanks in advance!

Dazed_and_confused

Your post is somewhat confusing as far as dates go.

I was a full time student 2009-2014 then lived and worked abroad 2014-2018

In addition, for 1.5 of the tax years in question (14016) was not a UK resident for tax purposes.

What does 14016 mean??

It may be possible for you to persuade HMRC that the return for 2015:16 should be withdrawn. That would mean no need for an appeal for that year and the penalties relating to that year would be scrapped.

Have you filed the returns yet for the other two years yet?

Prevarication wont help but you need to get your facts straight first.

Being a "full time student" has absolutely no relevance whatsoever as far as your tax affairs are concerned. It is your taxable income that counts. Have you got some idea what the completed returns will show as far as tax payable is concerned?

colouk

Dazed_and_confused wrote: »

Your post is somewhat confusing as far as dates go.





What does 14016 mean??

It may be possible for you to persuade HMRC that the return for 2015:16 should be withdrawn. That would mean no need for an appeal for that year and the penalties relating to that year would be scrapped.

Have you filed the returns yet for the other two years yet?

Prevarication wont help but you need to get your facts straight first.

Being a "full time student" has absolutely no relevance whatsoever as far as your tax affairs are concerned. It is your taxable income that counts. Have you got some idea what the completed returns will show as far as tax payable is concerned?

To clarify my dates...2009-2014 full time student (2009-2013 4 year undergrad course, 2013-2014 1 year master's course), then full time work abroad end of 2014 - end of 2018. Hope that makes sense?

Sorry, the '14016' date was a typo. I meant 14-16.

I received the letter today and was on the phone with them this afternoon so have not filed anything.

The only UK income I had during these years were 2 student jobs lasting a few weeks in 2013 that were paid via PAYE and I did no work as self-employed. So for all 3 of the requested tax returns, the payable tax will be £0.

Hope this helps to clarify

00ec25

OK, the basics
- having been instructed to file a return you must file it, nothing else will alter that position
- the penalty for not filing a tax return is utterly disconnected from whether you did or did not have a) income and/or b) tax in the tax year in question. Non filing is penalised. That is it.
- the penalty for non payment of tax will be a % of the tax due + some interest on late payment. No tax to pay = no penalty for non payment. Simples.

so what next?...
- file your returns for each year they asked for asap

- appeal the penalty for non filing if you want, but don't expect to win based on an argument that you had no tax to pay and/or were non resident.

colouk

Hi all,

Just a quick update:

After advice elsewhere, I rang HMRC to get the years withdrawn. I first rang the 200 3824 number that was on my penalty letter and explained my case, especially emphasising the fact that I have never worked as self=employed and was working out of the country for at least 1 full tax year in question. But, again, the guy said I had to file, pay the penalty and then appeal. But since I had some specific questions about why my status had been changed in 2016 since I had not been in touch, he told me to ring a number ending in 200 31310 and what a world of difference that made. The woman was far more knowledgeable and several times put me on hold to speak to a superior and she has cancelled all the years and cancelled the penalties. Hopefully this can help others in similar situations!

dont_use_vistaprint

Call small biz compliance and do the questionnaire verbally, as long as you answer honestly they should be able to either remove the penalty or make it the minimum as you diddnt purposely try to avoid tax. If you get the penalty removed the interest will also be removed, if you get the minimum they should also set the interest rate to the minimum they can. After the questions they will tell you the decision and send a new request for fines plus interest. You can then decide whether to appeal

Note by doing this they will automatically make the date of the requirement to file 3 months from now as opposed to 31/01/19, delaying interest , plus inform you they will put checks in place on your bank accounts and other files, to ensure you pay the correct tax, its normal, nothing to worry about, but the info sounds scarier than it is