Cost Effective Electric Heating

mmmmikey

Re: storage heater running costs vs panel heaters. Let me put some actual numbers to this.



I live in a 25 year old but well insulated 3 bedroom bungalow. The previous occupant had removed the electric storage heaters and installed Fischer Future Heat panel heaters. I ran these last heating season and then changed back to storage heaters for this heating season.


In January 2018 (Fischer Future Heaters & standard single rate electricity) I used a total of 1309kWh of electricity at a cost of £190.91
In January 2019 (Creda TSR Storage Heaters & economy 7) I used a total of 1317kWh of electricity at a cost of £105.95


This is my overall power usage as I can't easily separate out the heating, and in any event this is a better comparison because switching to E7 effects all your usage.


As you can see, I've used pretty much exactly the same amount of electricity but reduced my bill by 45% by changing back to storage heaters using cheap rate electricity. The house has been every bit as warm and comfortable. Over the course of the year I reckon on saving £500 or so following the swap to storage heaters.


These figures aren't based on theories or assumptions, they are actual figures. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions!

matelodave

You are correct, ASHP's are more expensive than a conventional boiler but if you've only got leccy or the choice of LPG or oil then take the the up front price difference between the three options and then an ASHP isn't quite so daunting.

I dont know what the price per kwh is for oil or LPG but I guess the electricty price per kwh with an ASHP is pretty competitive - I'm still getting my leccy at 11.5p/wh and witha COP of around 3 that equates to around 4p/kwh which isn't bad. Even at 15/p kwh it's only 5pkwh which is a lot cheaper than off-peak leccy.

On top of that a lump sum of just over £180 RHI drops into my bank account every three months for seven years so I'm getting about £5k back which will pay well over the cost difference between my ASHP and an oil or lpg installation.

It's probably not cost competitive with mains gas, and that would have been my choice if I had the option but that's not what we are talikng about in this thread.

I've had mine for eight years (this is the 9th winter) and I reckon it's already paid for itself.

They aren't for everyone but installed and used correctly they are extremely cost effective.

Robin9

matelodave wrote: »

...................... but that's not what we are talking about in this thread..........................

I don't know why wwe are talking about ASHP at all - OP's is asking what is the most Cost Effective Electric Heating.

Hopefully Mattyuk76 will come back.

matelodave

There is the option of either an Air-to-air heat pump or an Air-to-water solution. Both of which can be very cost effective and they run from a electricity power source.

What other criteria did you have in mind. Are we talking about installation cost, running cost or whole life cost?

Probably the cheapest to install are panel, radiant or convector heaters because you can just buy them and plug them in but they are probly the most expensive to run because they use peak rate leccy(include heaters with magic ingredients in this category)

The next most expensive to install is probably storage heating as they reallly need special circuits but they are realtively cheap to run and you can also take advantage of the off peak rates for other stuff if you want to.

An air-air heat pump is probably not ever so expensive to install but could be extremely cost effective to run as they've got a better COP than wet heatpump systems, but they dont qualify for RHI

A wet electric system would be the most expensive and disruptive to install. Coupled to a flow boiler and it could be even more expensive to run that even panel heaters.

A wet heatpump system would also be expensive to install but could be very cost effective to run and there is the advantage of the RHI payments

all have their pros & cons

nigelbb

wavelets wrote: »

Storage heaters do, of course, release some of the heat during the day, but the amount should be small, especially if you have newer models that are better insulated to retain the heat.

So yes, you do need to store the heat before you use it. But if you don'tr need to use it, then it should be there for later (well most of it) - that's why they are called storarge heaters.

We've had storage heaters in the past, and were lovely and toasty at the end of the day without any issues.

If your storage heaters are not retaining heat until the evening, then chances are you are not operating them correctly.
(Either not storing sufficient heat overnight, or releasing the heat too soon)
If at the weekend, and you are using heat during the day too, it may be the storage heaters are not correctly sized for the property.

Even with the most efficient storage heaters there is still the problem that you are wasting money by paying for heating before you know whether you need it or not. It's not heating on demand like gas/oil central heating or regular electric heaters it' s heating on all the time whether you need it or not.

wavelets

nigelbb wrote: »

... It's not heating on demand like gas/oil central heating or regular electric heaters it' s heating on all the time whether you need it or not.

The OP doesn't have the option of gas or oil.

The heating should not be"on all the time whether you need it or not"
Storage heaters use cheap rate electricity to heat up and store that heat, as I've mentioned before. The clue is in their name
That usually means a maximum of 7 hours per day, although they are thermostatically controlled and often don't need all 7 hours to recharge.

You should then control how that heat is output to coincide with your own requirements.

Yes, there is some small leakage of heat during the day, as I mentioned, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Helps prevent the property from freezing, or damp developing. But you can boost the output in the evening, if necessary (not by using full cost electricity, but simply allowing more stored heat to be released)

Some of the newer, more expensive models are automated to an extent to assist you.

Yes it does all need a bit of planning, but then us with gas central heating (or use expensive timed panel heaters) often need to plan ahead too.

I'm sure it's not just me that sets the the central heating timer in advance to come on at say 4pm, in readiness for me arriving home to a nice warm house at 5pm, only to find I have to work late, or get stuck in traffic, and so don't actually get home until 8pm.

mmmmikey

To reinforce the last post, I think the keys point here is that although there is some "wastage" of heat during the day with storage heaters, there is also some "wastage" with instantaneous heaters in that you have to switch them on in advance to bring the room up to temperature, and the colder you have let the room get during the day the sooner you'll have to switch the instaneous heaters on. The question becomes how much does that wastage cost compared with the benefit of using cheaper night rate electricity.


Two years ago, I had a fairly neutral view on this, so rather than speculate I ran the instaneous heaters that were in the bungalow I bought for a season. The cost of doing this was enough to persuade me it was worth the gamble of taking them out and installing (re-conditioned, not the latest and best) storage heaters. Comparing January 2018 to January 2019, this has saved me £85 for the month and looks to save me £500 for the year.



So in my case, I'm saving an awful lot by using Economy 7, and given that I have middle of the range heaters in a very typical bungalow my expectation would be that a lot of other people would find the same thing.


Of course, there are possible scenarios where instantaneous heaters would work out cheaper to run, but I expect that they are few and far between (despite the claims of Fischer Future Heaters and others!)


One final comment - a significantly higher proportion of the electricity used overnight is from low carbon sources, so even allowing for a little bit of wastage there are big environmental benefits to using storage heaters vs. instaneous heaters.

Richie-from-the-Boro

nigelbb wrote: »

Even with the most efficient storage heaters there is still the problem that you are wasting money by paying for heating before you know whether you need it or not. It's not heating on demand like gas/oil central heating or regular electric heaters it' s heating on all the time whether you need it or not.

- forget 2nd law of efficiency, its established physics nigelbb
- no such thing as waste as such, it goes into the dwelling
- equally true for water, it stays in the can or goes into the dwelling
- NSH no such thing as not needed, its stored in the can for later

E7 is paying for half price stored energy, rather than energy on demand.

The O/P is likely rented sector in which case its half price E7 TOU or on demand full price. Ditto ASHP's both (1) gas and air-source will be disallowed if rented and even if the O/P is (2) wholly owned or shared ownership they are unlikely to own the fabric and roof of the building they have bought a flat in and (3) gas supply and per--flat-bonding the O/P is probably out of the question.

nigelbb

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

- forget 2nd law of efficiency, its established physics nigelbb
- no such thing as waste as such, it goes into the dwelling
- equally true for water, it stays in the can or goes into the dwelling
- NSH no such thing as not needed, its stored in the can for later

E7 is paying for half price stored energy, rather than energy on demand.

Stored energy in night storage heaters is not stored until some date in the future as water would be. It's discharged over the next 12-16 hours whether you want it or not. Hot afternoon? Too bad you still get the rooms heated. Out for the evening? Too bad you are still heating the house. Sudden cold snap? Unless you had the night storage heaters switched on last night then the house is cold today.

I'm not saying there isn't a place for night storage heaters just that they are not some magic solution for cheap heating.

wavelets

nigelbb wrote: »

Stored energy in night storage heaters is not stored until some date in the future as water would be.

On the contrary, that is a very similar analogy.

We found our storage heaters would retain heat for about 48 hours from fully charged if we turned them off and didn't use any of the heat.

Similarly, our hot water remains warm in our tank for about 48 hours, if we turn that off and do not use any hot water.

nigelbb wrote: »

I'm not saying there isn't a place for night storage heaters just that they are not some magic solution for cheap heating.

No one is saying it is, but it's usually the cheapest option available for those that are electric only. (heat pump opportunities excepted)
Don't forget, you can get cheap hot water too using your E7 tariff