Storage Heaters, Immersion Water Heater and how to save money?

pkfb269

Hi,
I'm on ecotricity E7 (11.85p per unit), there's no gas supply in the property, only electric. There's 3 storage heaters, one is switched off at the wall permanently. One is turned down to medium as it's in the bathroom an the other is up about 3/4's the way to full power as it's freezing right now.
We've got a water tank with no external controls and no visible thermostat, a big red jacket/sleeve thing around it and a bunch of bricks stacked in front of it.

There's an E7BX water heating boost control in the cupboard downstairs. I have to switch this on every time I want hot water as there is only lukewarm water that comes out of the taps at any given time of of day. Theres a switch for "Off" or "Timed" and a dial for up to 2 hours. My understanding is that I can leave it on "Timed" and just turn the dial for a hot water boost, when the dial hits 0 it stops consuming electric. I trialed turning it off all time and only switching it on along with turning the dial when needed for a month and this made no difference in usage figures.
There's also a random switch in the kitchen (upstairs, yes the house is upside down) that has an LED light and says "Water Heater" on it. If I leave this on all the time, the LED sometimes lights up as if it's working. If I leave it off, I have to turn it on again when I put the boost on downstairs.

Once the boost has been on for a bit, the water from the taps is scalding hot, so hot that it hurts through rubber gloves.

In addition there are three electric heaters, bog standard kind of turn it on and get heat kind of things. They're never on at night only one of them for a quick 15 minute boost just before bed, just before getting up in the morning for the bedroom and maybe once or twice on very cold days in the living room as the storage heater is crap.

My electric bill says I'm using 1409 units at night and only 230 during the day. This is a £240 bill! I'm frugal about other things consuming power, it's not even plugged into the wall if I don't need it. Also, we have easy access to the meter and we send the exact numbers via the ecotricity app so these are actual usage figures and not estimates.

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do to reduce this bill and how to get heat and water more effectively? Anyone know the correct combination of water boost switch (downstairs) and water heater switch (kitchen) to actually get hot water or do I really have to turn everything on whenever I want to get hot water from a tap?

Thanks in Advance

Robin9

pkfb269 wrote: »

.........................
My electric bill says I'm using 1409 units at night and only 230 during the day. This is a £240 bill! ...............

Over what period of time is this - month, six months ?????

Are the readings on the bills Estimated or Actual ?

AndyPK

there should be a way that the water tank is heated up during the nite / E7 hours automatically. Maybe post some photos of around the tank if you can to show wires/controls etc.

If your bedroom heater is plug in, I would suggest you get a plug in timer.
You could have it coming on a 6am during E7 hours to get advantage of cheap heat. Be sure your know when your E7 hours REALLY are by looking at the timer next to the meter if you have one. (post photos)
You could also automate your 15 mins before bed.

And have it come on during the night if it doesn't wake you.

wavelets

pkfb269 wrote: »

Hi,
I'm on ecotricity E7 (11.85p per unit), there's no gas supply in the property, only electric. There's 3 storage heaters, one is switched off at the wall permanently. One is turned down to medium as it's in the bathroom an the other is up about 3/4's the way to full power as it's freezing right now.
We've got a water tank with no external controls and no visible thermostat, a big red jacket/sleeve thing around it and a bunch of bricks stacked in front of it.

There's an E7BX water heating boost control in the cupboard downstairs. I have to switch this on every time I want hot water as there is only lukewarm water that comes out of the taps at any given time of of day. Theres a switch for "Off" or "Timed" and a dial for up to 2 hours. My understanding is that I can leave it on "Timed" and just turn the dial for a hot water boost, when the dial hits 0 it stops consuming electric. I trialed turning it off all time and only switching it on along with turning the dial when needed for a month and this made no difference in usage figures.
There's also a random switch in the kitchen (upstairs, yes the house is upside down) that has an LED light and says "Water Heater" on it. If I leave this on all the time, the LED sometimes lights up as if it's working. If I leave it off, I have to turn it on again when I put the boost on downstairs.

Once the boost has been on for a bit, the water from the taps is scalding hot, so hot that it hurts through rubber gloves.

In addition there are three electric heaters, bog standard kind of turn it on and get heat kind of things. They're never on at night only one of them for a quick 15 minute boost just before bed, just before getting up in the morning for the bedroom and maybe once or twice on very cold days in the living room as the storage heater is crap.

My electric bill says I'm using 1409 units at night and only 230 during the day. This is a £240 bill! I'm frugal about other things consuming power, it's not even plugged into the wall if I don't need it. Also, we have easy access to the meter and we send the exact numbers via the ecotricity app so these are actual usage figures and not estimates.

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do to reduce this bill and how to get heat and water more effectively? Anyone know the correct combination of water boost switch (downstairs) and water heater switch (kitchen) to actually get hot water or do I really have to turn everything on whenever I want to get hot water from a tap?

Thanks in Advance

There are 3 ways you can reduce your cost
1. Use less electricity
2. Shift more electricity usage from normal rate (about 22p/kwh at current Ecotricity rates) to low rate (about 11p/kwh at current Ecotricity rates )
3. Consult a comparison site to see if there is a better supplier/tariff for you
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/you-switch-gas-electricity/

PeterGr

Achieving 85% of your consumption in the off peak period is broadly in line with the intentions of the E7 tariff. It sounds as if you are operating the hot water by using the boost function on your E7BX controller and so heating your hot water with peak rate electricity.


Your hot water cylinder will have one or two immersion heaters, with their own thermostats. Left in the timed mode there should be hot water every morning. If not there may be a problem to investigate. Turning either switch to Off is intended for periods when you are away and don't want to keep heating water. The boost switch is then only needed if you have used up the hot water and allows you to have the immersion heater on for a period up to 2 hours. You want to keep use of the boost switch during peak hours to a minimum.

jk0

I'd turn that other storage heater on IIWY.

Groundy46

I have 2 switches on my large immersion heater one states 24 hours the problem is the tank is much too big but I can't change it as I rent the house we do not have a bath as we changed it for a shower which heats water as we use it and the washing machine is cold fill we have had both switches on ever since we have lived here really all we need is enough hot water to get a wash of a morning and to wash the dishes, we also have a boost switch which states economy 7, I was going to turn both switches off and just put the booster on of a morning for an hour.   Alex 

avoidtheupsidedownbottles

Are you on an Economy7 type tariff and meter where electricity is cheaper overnight?  If you are on E7, you definitely want to heat the water only during the E7 hours - whether that be the whole tank, or just using the top heater for a smaller amount of hot water.

ETA:  If possible, using the electric shower only during E7 hours will also save you a significant amount of money.

Gerry1

Groundy46 said:

I have 2 switches on my large immersion heater one states 24 hours the problem is the tank is much too big but I can't change it as I rent the house we do not have a bath as we changed it for a shower which heats water as we use it and the washing machine is cold fill we have had both switches on ever since we have lived here really all we need is enough hot water to get a wash of a morning and to wash the dishes, we also have a boost switch which states economy 7, I was going to turn both switches off and just put the booster on of a morning for an hour.   Alex 

You're choosing the worst possible options !

It's likely that you have two immersion heaters, one at the bottom to give you a full tank at cheap E7 rate, and another halfway up to give you a half a tank as an expensive emergency boost if you run out during the day.  The upper heater should always be left off unless you've messed up or come back from holiday, etc.

If the lower heater is switched by the meter (best solution) the local switch should be left on.  However, it may be on a 24hr circuit with a local timeswitch (cheapskate solution).  If so, make sure that it's set to switch on only during E7 cheap rate; cheap motorised versions will switch at the wrong times after a power cut. Dial 105 to find out your E7 times.

If you're worried about heat loss from a full tank, fit another insulating jacket.  Alternatively, switch off the lower heater and fit a local timer to the upper heater so that the boost circuit is switched for an hour or two on towards the end of the E7 cheap rate period.

An instantaneous electric shower is hideously expensive because you're using peak rate electricity.   Replace it with a pumped version that uses cheap hot water from the tank.

Talldave

Groundy46 said:

I have 2 switches on my large immersion heater one states 24 hours the problem is the tank is much too big but I can't change it as I rent the house we do not have a bath as we changed it for a shower which heats water as we use it and the washing machine is cold fill we have had both switches on ever since we have lived here really all we need is enough hot water to get a wash of a morning and to wash the dishes, we also have a boost switch which states economy 7, I was going to turn both switches off and just put the booster on of a morning for an hour.   Alex 

What does your bill say - are you on Economy 7?  What are the unit rates?

Richie-from-the-Boro

Immersion

The primary purpose of the Hortsmann EPBX or any other brand water controller is to allow the top immersion to function [off peak] while isolated from the [on peak] bottom stat & immersion. If with a Horstmann you ever switched on the 60 minute [top immersion] during off peak rate at for example 1150HRS and the [off peak] came on automatically with the teleswitch the Horstmann would throw, isolate and protect you and your equipment whilst at the same time switching off your expensive [and pointless] peak rate top immersion element. switching and protection, The E7 [tariff] timings are out of the householders control. I'm assuming you have a "PartL" system with comparatively excellent blown thermal insulation. You decide whether top frequently or bottom only a couple of times a week.
 

Storage Heater[s]

Are always misunderstood by most people. Read how to use them on this subforum and benefit from the learning. Every E7 user has different needs and strategies, mine is .(a)70% cheap night use and 30% expensive day use of electricity (b) damper tightly closed and never used in 40 years of E7. If you fill the heaters with enough and use good radiated heat rather than bad convected heat you will have a  cheaper optimum experience.

On Demand Shower

Will (unless you shower inside E7 cheap rate timings) be at expensive rate but essential for hygiene so quite right to use it wisely.

Best of luck, questions ? - ask here lots of good people.