Test for lodgers or tenants

Beeper

I rented a room last year from a woman who lived in France. The house had three rooms, two doubles and one boxy room containing a pullout sofa bed. The landlady lived in the house for a year or so after she brought it before moving to France. I think that was 5yrs ago. She keeps things in the basement and the house is fully furnished. Before I moved in she said as she still has things in the house and has a room there, we (me and the other person living there) are lodgers not tenants, so the deposit didn’t need to be protected and we did not have ASTs. In the 10months i lived there, I think the landlady stayed in that spare room no more than 2nights. We were told we could have guests in the spare room (she referred to it as the spare room) and that it was too cold/ damp to use in the winter. Does she pass the test for live-in landlady?
Thanks

G_M

Almost certainly not.

But only way to know for sure is via a court decision. So.... what is your aim? What court claim might you bring?

* received notice and want to insist on S21, 2 months notice etc?
* want to claim the penalty for non registration of deposit?
* want to lock the landlady out and use the extra room?
* want to leave?

or what?

Beeper

Ive already moved out. Just curiosity. And if she’s been claiming £900 in rent a month (bills seperate) and claiming rent a room allowance, she’s under paid her tax for years.

Beeper

G_M wrote: »

Almost certainly not.

But only way to know for sure is via a court decision. So.... what is your aim? What court claim might you bring?

* received notice and want to insist on S21, 2 months notice etc?
* want to claim the penalty for non registration of deposit?
* want to lock the landlady out and use the extra room?
* want to leave?

or what?

I guess I want her to take her job as landlady more seriously. which is isn’t doing under pretence of live-in landlady. I was asked to leave with 6weeks notice because her friend moved to town and wanted the room. And I think she should pay her tax fairly. But I don’t care enough to take her to court. Is that really the only way considering she’s the one circumventing the system?

zagubov

Beeper wrote: »

Ive already moved out. Just curiosity. And if she’s been claiming £900 in rent a month (bills seperate) and claiming rent a room allowance, she’s under paid her tax for years.

You need to be careful here. HMRC might decide you should have been paying tax to them directly and might come back to you for the tax underpaid.

Beeper

G_M wrote: »

Almost certainly not.

But only way to know for sure is via a court decision. So.... what is your aim? What court claim might you bring?

* received notice and want to insist on S21, 2 months notice etc?
* want to claim the penalty for non registration of deposit?
* want to lock the landlady out and use the extra room?
* want to leave?

or what?

zagubov wrote: »

You need to be careful here. HMRC might decide you should have been paying tax to them directly and might come back to you for the tax underpaid.

Why would I have had to pay tax directly to them?

G_M

Beeper wrote: »

Why would I have had to pay tax directly to them?

If

* it is shown to be a tenancy (so Rent a Room scheme does not apply) AND
* the landlord is resident abroad, AND
* rent is paid direct to the landlord (not to a UK based agent) AND
* no formal tax arrangement for the rent has been agreed with HMRC

then HMRC can demand the landlord's tax at 20% from the tenant (who is easier to find than the overseas landlord....). See


HMRC (Non Resident [= overseas] Landlord Scheme)

Beeper

G_M wrote: »

If

* it is shown to be a tenancy (so Rent a Room scheme does not apply) AND
* the landlord is resident abroad, AND
* rent is paid direct to the landlord (not to a UK based agent) AND
* no formal tax arrangement for the rent has been agreed with HMRC

then HMRC can demand the landlord's tax at 20% from the tenant (who is easier to find than the overseas landlord....). See


HMRC (Non Resident [= overseas] Landlord Scheme)

That seems like a rather unfair system. So there’s nothing i can do and she can continue as she is? Or would I have to pay it and then take her to court to claim it back?

G_M

Beeper wrote: »

Ive already moved out. Just curiosity. And if she’s been claiming £900 in rent a month (bills seperate) and claiming rent a room allowance, she’s under paid her tax for years.

You have no idea what her tax arrangements are though do you?

I was asked to leave with 6weeks notice because her friend moved to town and wanted the room.

Then that was the time to challenge her. If you had refused to leave and insisted on 2 month notice via a S21, the lodger/tenant issue would have been highlighted, and resolved one way or another.

Is that really the only way considering she’s the one circumventing the system?

If you wish to get a legal determination of the status of your occupation (tenancy Vs licence) you need a court decision.
An alternative would be to report her to HMRC for tax evasion. They might investigate, they might not. If they do, they might find she's evaded tax, they might not.


Or report to other relevant authorities whomight investigate:
* HSE if there is no gas safety report (though they'll only be interested if there's an ongoing tenancy)
* local authority (or RentSmart Wales) if property is in an area of complusory LL registration)
* local authority if you believe it's a licencable HMO

00ec25

Beeper wrote: »

But I don’t care enough to take her to court.

so this thread is an ENTIRE WASTE OF TIME then unless you can be bothered to do something honourable

https://www.gov.uk/report-an-unregistered-trader-or-business

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-privately/ending-your-tenancy/taking-your-landlord-to-court-if-they-havent-followed-the-deposit-rules/

Beeper

You have no idea what her tax arrangements are though do you?

No, I admit I don’t. I’m merely pondering.

Then that was the time to challenge her. If you had refused to leave and insisted on 2 month notice via a S21, the lodger/tenant issue would have been highlighted, and resolved one way or another.

It wasn’t too much bother for me to leave so I didn’t raise or challenge it. As in life, other things more troublesome were happening so arguing this was quite low on my list of priorities.

If you wish to get a legal determination of the status of your occupation (tenancy Vs licence) you need a court decision.
An alternative would be to report her to HMRC for tax evasion. They might investigate, they might not. If they do, they might find she's evaded tax, they might not.

And if they investigate and find she has evaded, would I have to pay it?

[/QUOTE]