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Surviving spouse refusing to progress probate

Hi - my mother in law has just died without a will, jointly owning half the family home and a variety of savings accounts in joint names, and on the face of it will have some inheritance tax liability. We have notified the Tell me Once and bank Death Notification service ourselves, just to get something moving and basic pensions cancelled. My father in law is 87 , has no will himself, and sees no need to progress winding up her affairs in any at all - even moving accounts out of her name into the joint holder (mainly we think himself) is not going to be done. Because he understands the joint accounts won;t be frozen he sees no need to do anything and will just continue using those accounts himself as if nothing had changed. What will happen if this just goes on and on ? Do HMRC eventually show an interest ?

Comments

  • Flugelhorn
    Flugelhorn Posts: 7,451 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 27 January 2019 at 5:48PM
    Was the house held as Tenants in Common or Joint Tenants? If the latter (more common - particularly if there was no will) then your FIL now owns it and needs to do nothing and it is unlikely that there would be inheritance tax (as anything joint goes to surviving spouse) or a need for probate.



    If it is TIC or very complex or huge estate then the situation is different
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    What makes you think there is a potential IHT bill?
  • Mr_Roarke
    Mr_Roarke Posts: 2 Newbie
    edited 27 January 2019 at 7:17PM
    Ok, point by point : (stressing that there is no will)

    My understanding of UK intestacy laws is that her assets do NOT just all go to the surviving partner, but is split partially to him and the rest equally between surviving adult children as over the prescribed limits

    Also that Inheritance tax liability passing over to the surviving spouse ONLY applies if there's a will to that effect - if not, then IHT has to be dealt with on her own threshold and liability, so as there is no Will....

    And a quick calculation of half the house value plus savings is well over the single persons IHT threshold.

    So back to the real question - what happens if this is just left and nothing done to settle the intestate estate ? .....

    And yes believed to be joint tenants on the title deeds.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,571 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Everything in joint names is now his, including the house.

    In an intestate estate, the spouse inherits the first £250,000 and all chattels. The rest is divided between the spouse and the children.
  • Flugelhorn
    Flugelhorn Posts: 7,451 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 27 January 2019 at 7:45PM
    The jointly owned house now belongs to father and is not counted in IHT - no need to change the name on deeds etc , my father's was still on registry until after my mother died 20 years later.

    Did your mother have over 250K solely in her name?

    As to the question about what would happen if HMRC weren't contacted in a case where there might be IHT - well they would get to know when probate was applied for and if you had an estate like that you wouldn't be able to do anything without probate.
    Occasionally people don't get probate when it actually was needed and then executors have to apply later many years down the line when the spouse has also passed on.
  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 21,496 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Mr_Roarke wrote: »
    Ok, point by point : (stressing that there is no will)

    My understanding of UK intestacy laws is that her assets do NOT just all go to the surviving partner, but is split partially to him and the rest equally between surviving adult children as over the prescribed limits

    Also that Inheritance tax liability passing over to the surviving spouse ONLY applies if there's a will to that effect - if not, then IHT has to be dealt with on her own threshold and liability, so as there is no Will....

    And a quick calculation of half the house value plus savings is well over the single persons IHT threshold.

    So back to the real question - what happens if this is just left and nothing done to settle the intestate estate ? .....

    And yes believed to be joint tenants on the title deeds.

    Your understanding is wrong, dying intestate does not nullify the tax exemption of the part of the estate inherited by the spouse. All joint assets are now his. If her sole assets were less than £250k then that is also his.

    If her sole assets were in excess of £250k then anything over that value he will receive 50% and the other 50% would go to her children. In order for IHT to to kick in her sole assets would have to exceed £950k because at that point her children would be inheriting in excess of her £325k nil rate band.

    Unless they deliberately split the ownership as tennants in common ( unlikely for people their age with no will in place) the house is almost certainly his outright, and does not form part of her estate.
  • Tom99
    Tom99 Posts: 5,371 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary
    So MIL estate, excluding anything already in joint names, needs to be over £250k before anything would go to children and over £900k before any IHT was due.
  • Yorkshireman99
    Yorkshireman99 Posts: 5,470 Forumite
    edited 27 January 2019 at 10:02PM
    Mr_Roarke wrote: »
    Hi - my mother in law has just died without a will, jointly owning half the family home and a variety of savings accounts in joint names, and on the face of it will have some inheritance tax liability. We have notified the Tell me Once and bank Death Notification service ourselves, just to get something moving and basic pensions cancelled. My father in law is 87 , has no will himself, and sees no need to progress winding up her affairs in any at all - even moving accounts out of her name into the joint holder (mainly we think himself) is not going to be done. Because he understands the joint accounts won;t be frozen he sees no need to do anything and will just continue using those accounts himself as if nothing had changed. What will happen if this just goes on and on ? Do HMRC eventually show an interest ?
    The bank still need to be told about the death. If he will not it is easy for you to do. It just needs the death certificate. When he dies you will need letters of administration for him and his widow. It will be more costly and complex than doing now. Probate prices are about to rise.
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