End of tenancy - Landlord trying to be smart

Ange47

Hi all,

and thanks in advance to whoever will help with this. I will try and make it as short as possible:

September 2017 - I rented a room in a house with supposedly a live-in landlady (who was rarely in though). £500 monthly rent (all inclusive), £500 deposit (not protected due to live in landlady status).

During my tenancy, must have been sometime around February 2018, I accidentally caused a burning mark on the carpet (probably as old as the property, roughly 10 years old I'd imagine - newish looking build). I didn't say anything, purely thinking it wouldn't be too much of a problem, due to the size and the fact that it's not very noticeable (unless you look for it).

During summer 2018, the carpet is thoroughly steam cleaned by my landlady, but she doesn't ask or mention anything to me about the mark.

I loved the place, kept it very clean and tidy at all times and we had a "relaxed" relationship me and my landlady, payments always on time, little favours every now and then.

I gave 5 weeks notice (2 weeks to give by contract) and said to my landlady to go inspect the room whenever she wishes.

2 weeks before my leaving date, she mentions the burn mark. After a quick research I offered £100 for the damage. She says "no, please have carpet companies send me quotes, so I can judge whether £100 is good or not". There is already 100% matching carpet, so I get some quotes pretty much for labour only. I got quoted £55, £30 and £70 to put a patch. One of these company can do the job ASAP.

She said no as she'd feel bad about the carpet being patched, despite the fact that the new patch will blend in (get dirty) after months of usage. I then offered the highest I was quoted (£70). Now she asks for a full carpet replacement....

I have dealt with clever landlords before, took one to court and won. Before I proceed I will try and reason with my landlady now as I'm still happy to pay for the damage or even get it fixed!

QUESTIONS:

1. What is your opinion? She admits I've been a lovely tenant, but the as there is damage I need to fix it, but she wants to take advantage. I do take full responsibility for the damage but I don't want to pay for her new full carpet. Would this make a court case?

2. If things go bad though, and I take it to court, I want to know if there's anything that can be done about the fact that she asked me to rename my bank statements from "FEBRUARY RENT" to like "BILLS", every month, as she said otherwise the mortgage company would make things harder.

3. Also is there a way to see whether things have been done regularly from her side? I have a feeling I was never declared and she got £500 tax free every month.

2-3 will give me some leverage possibly.

THANK YOU for all your help.

middleclassbutpoor

If you think she has been evading tax, you can report her to HMRC but to me comes across as something a vindictive person would do.

You caused a burn mark on her carpet, you failed to mention it and you thought because she didn't mention it, this makes it ok. It doesn't work that - you caused damage end of. She wants it fixing.

The bit you need to agree is how much. I wouldn't want a patch (regardless of how much better it would look when it got dirty - really?)

Taking away all the undertones of how you can get one over on your landlady - why not just propose the new carpet cost for the whole room, which you will pay a % of given that the carpet wasn't new. Falling out and creating bad feelings is honestly not worth it for what is likely to be a difference of a couple of hundred quid.

da_rule

1) If there is damage and you are liable (it seems by offering to repair it that you have accepted liability) it will come down to a judgment of reasonableness. Is a patch repair reasonable in the circumstances? That will depend on the location of the patch, the size of the patch, the potential visibility of the damage/repair and possibly the condition of the rest of the carpet. Also, the cost to replace with a carpet of the same quality will need to be considered (you haven't stated how much a replacement would actually be).

Personally, I don't think you've got enough to bring a case as you have admitted liability. It would be perfectly reasonable for the landlord to say that the damage is in a prominent position and as such a patch repair would also leave 'damage' and not actually repair the issue.

2) Irrelevant. How she deals with her accounts is her business. The civil courts will not be interested in this. Also, you had the option to not change the reference, so by making the change you consented to her request.

3) Declared to who? If you are a lodger (which your situation suggests you are) then she can earn £7,500 without having to pay tax and without having to declare it.

Comms69

Where did she live?

G_M

Ange47 wrote: »

September 2017 - I rented a room in a house with supposedly a live-in landlady (who was rarely in though). £500 monthly rent (all inclusive), £500 deposit (not protected due to live in landlady status).
So almost certainly you are a lodger, not a tenant.
You have a licence to occupy, not a tenancy.


During my [STRIKE]tenancy[/STRIKE]period of licence, .... I accidentally caused a burning mark on the carpet (probably as old as the property, roughly 10 years old I'd imagin.....
So you admit the damage.
But 'betterment' would apply


During summer 2018, the carpet is thoroughly steam cleaned by my landlady, but she doesn't ask or mention anything to me about the mark. irrelevant

I loved the place, kept it very clean and tidy at all times and we had a "relaxed" relationship me and my landlady, payments always on time, little favours every now and then. irrelevant

I gave 5 weeks notice (2 weeks to give by contract) and said to my landlady to go inspect the room whenever she wishes. OK

2 weeks before my leaving date, she mentions the burn mark. After a quick research please explain

I offered £100 for the damage. She says "no, please have carpet companies send me quotes, so I can judge whether £100 is good or not". There is already 100% matching carpet, so I get some quotes pretty much for labour only. I got quoted £55, £30 and £70 to put a patch. One of these company can do the job ASAP.

?? it's really for her to tell you what she believes the damage to cost, but still.....
Why 'labour only'?
Why 'put a patch'? As a LL I'd not be happy with a patch.


She said no as she'd feel bad about the carpet being patched, despite the fact that the new patch will blend in (get dirty) after months of usage. I then offered the highest I was quoted (£70). Now she asks for a full carpet replacement....
I would do the same.
Bearing in mind 'betterment'

I have dealt with clever landlords before,

in what way is this 'clever'? She's simply asking you to cover the cost of the damage you admit!

took one to court and won. Good for you, but so what?

This is a different case
Before I proceed I will try and reason with my landlady now as I'm still happy to pay for the damage or even get it fixed!OK

QUESTIONS:

1. What is your opinion?
She should get quotes for a new carpet, supply and fit, and then adjust for betterment.
You should then pay that.

She admits I've been a lovely tenant, but the as there is damage I need to fix it,She's right

but she wants to take advantage.From what you've said so far, she is not taking advantage except perhaps as regards betterment

I do take full responsibility for the damage but I don't want to pay for her new full carpet. Would this make a court case?
Yes if she claims betterment

2. If things go bad though, and I take it to court, I want to know if there's anything that can be done about the fact that she asked me to rename my bank statements from "FEBRUARY RENT" to like "BILLS", every month, as she said otherwise the mortgage company would make things harder.
I have absolutely no idea why you think this should make any difference to a case over carpet damage!

3. Also is there a way to see whether things have been done regularly from her side? I have a feeling I was never declared and she got £500 tax free every month.
See Rent-a-Room scheme. She is allowed £500 a month tax free.

Look up 'betterment',
Pay for everything else.

Mr.Generous

What does the carpet look like on the inventory at the start of your tenancy? What does the agreement say about damage?

You can probably get a new carpet and underlay fitted for about £200, if the old carpet was half way through its useful life offer £100 and move on.

PS love the fact that your going to report her to the tax office for participating in the rent a room scheme.

tacpot12

Have you got any quotes from a Carpet Doctor? Carpet Doctors specialise in making invisible repairs to carpets. The landlady might accept this, if the repair comes with a guarantee.

If she won't and holds out for a new carpet, she can't expect you to pay the whole cost because the carpet was about 9 years old when you moved in. She is, as you suggest, trying it on.

You can go to court to recover your deposit. Even though you admit liability, you cannot agree to the level of liability, and this is something a court can help with.

You need to have a couple of quotes to remove the old carpet and fit a new one, and then, based on these I would offer the landlord 20-25% of the cost of a new carpet. Being generous should work in your favour if you do get to court.

You could prepare a letter for your landlord to sign; the letter might say something like

"Mrs XXXX

Date: dd/mm/yy

RE: Burn Mark to carpet in my rented room.

I accept that I am responsible for causing the small burn mark on the carpet in the room I have occupied in your house from dd/mm/yyyy to dd//mm/yyyy. I am willing to make a contribution to the repair or replacement of the carpet of £xxx. I feel that this is a generous contribution given that the carpet was already well worn when I moved in. I understand that you do not feel that this amount is sufficient and that you propose to withhold £___ / All (complete as required) of my £500 security deposit.

Please sign here to confirm that you are withholding the amount shown above: _____________

Yours sincerely
A Tenant"

saajan_12

Ange47 wrote: »

Hi all,

and thanks in advance to whoever will help with this. I will try and make it as short as possible:

September 2017 - I rented a room in a house with supposedly a live-in landlady (who was rarely in though). £500 monthly rent (all inclusive), £500 deposit (not protected due to live in landlady status). - okay, so you're a lodger. Indeed deposit doesn't need to be protected.

During my tenancy, must have been sometime around February 2018, I accidentally caused a burning mark on the carpet - you damaged it, you pay to reinstate it. (probably as old as the property, roughly 10 years old I'd imagine - newish looking build). I didn't say anything, purely thinking it wouldn't be too much of a problem, due to the size and the fact that it's not very noticeable (unless you look for it). - sneaky! Of course damaging someone's property is a problem.

During summer 2018, the carpet is thoroughly steam cleaned by my landlady, but she doesn't ask or mention anything to me about the mark. - irrelevant (and nice of her!) Perhaps she wasn't looking to check damage / couldn't remember the inventory / thought you'd be honest and make good before leaving.

I loved the place, kept it very clean and tidy at all times and we had a "relaxed" relationship me and my landlady, payments always on time, little favours every now and then. - irrelevant, you live how you choose for your own benefit. Payments Should be on time, no prizes for that.

I gave 5 weeks notice (2 weeks to give by contract) and said to my landlady to go inspect the room whenever she wishes. - irrelevant. That was your choice, doesn't negate your damage.

2 weeks before my leaving date, she mentions the burn mark. After a quick research I offered £100 for the damage. She says "no, please have carpet companies send me quotes, so I can judge whether £100 is good or not". - Usually the LL would get the quotes, but agree a random £100 figure is pointless, it should reflect some quote. There is already 100% matching carpet, so I get some quotes pretty much for labour only. - Why labour only? If she has matching offcuts, that's not yours to appropriate. If you hadn't damaged it, she could have used those cuts elsewhere. I got quoted £55, £30 and £70 to put a patch. One of these company can do the job ASAP. - A patch is unreasonable. If you had a full unbroken carpet, you should return it (less wear) as an unbroken piece.

She said no as she'd feel bad about the carpet being patched, despite the fact that the new patch will blend in (get dirty) after months of usage. - but it would have less usage than the rest? She is right, I'd 'feel bad' about the carpet being patched too. I then offered the highest I was quoted (£70). - Thats still for a patch, ie not good enough. Now she asks for a full carpet replacement.... - YES! You damaged a full carpet, you should replace an old, yet FULL carpet. I.e. pay the % of full replacement to account for betterment.

I have dealt with clever landlords before, took one to court and won. - Irrelevant, that landlord might have been wrong. This one IS clever (ie knows more than you since you think a patch is enough) and is right. Before I proceed I will try and reason with my landlady now as I'm still happy to pay for the damage or even get it fixed! - good, so stop playing games and talking about patches, and pay your portion of the full replacement cost, allowing for betterment.

QUESTIONS:

1. What is your opinion? She admits I've been a lovely tenant, but the as there is damage I need to fix it, - She's 100% right. No prizes for being 'lovely'. but she wants to take advantage. - No, provided she discounts for the time the carpet has been used, she's entitled to the portion of full replacement. I do take full responsibility for the damage but I don't want to pay for her new full carpet. Would this make a court case? - Taking financial responsibility = paying for portion of new full carpet. So are you or are you not? Yes, it would make a court case for her if the deposit doesn't cover it. It makes a case for you if she claims betterment.

2. If things go bad though, and I take it to court, I want to know if there's anything that can be done about the fact that she asked me to rename my bank statements from "FEBRUARY RENT" to like "BILLS", every month, as she said otherwise the mortgage company would make things harder. - No one cares about the name. You agreed, so were complicit anyway.

3. Also is there a way to see whether things have been done regularly from her side? I have a feeling I was never declared and she got £500 tax free every month. - Her tax affairs are none of your business. Besides, under the rent a room scheme she's entitled to £625pm tax free.

2-3 will give me some leverage possibly.

THANK YOU for all your help.

(2) and (3) are irrelevant, and you need to stop playing games with patches.

You caused the damage, so you need to make good - LL is entitled to an old but FULL carpet without patches or burns. "Taking responsibility" = paying for the % of full replacement (materials + labour) that reflects the % of useful life of the carpet that is lost.

So if it was 10 yrs old, and had 20yr useful life, with £500 cost of new replacement, then the LL has lost 50% of the expected useful life becuase you damaged it. You should therefore pay £500 x 50% = £250.

martindow

saajan_12 wrote: »

So if it was 10 yrs old, and had 20yr useful life, with £500 cost of new replacement, then the LL has lost 50% of the expected useful life becuase you damaged it. You should therefore pay £500 x 50% = £250.

I think the percentage is very dependant on the quality of the carpet. Cheap carpets could be at the end of their life after 10 years.

G_M

martindow wrote: »

I think the percentage is very dependant on the quality of the carpet. Cheap carpets could be at the end of their life after 10 years.

Saajan was clearly using an example to explain the mathematics of 'betterment'.

if it was 10 yrs old, and had 20yr useful life,

He was not suggesting this this particular carpet had a life of 20 years, or that it was 10 years old, as he'd have no way of knowing.