Selling collection to buy a house while on ESA

G_M

Since it was me who originally raised the 'investment' issue, let me explore it further.

Yes, of course there is a difference between a hobby and an investment. But equally there is also an overlap (think venn diagram!).

I have no idea what the precise rules are, or the precise definitions. But it struck me as common sense that a 'collection' that was worth the equivant value of a property (up North or anywhere) was more likely to be in the right-hand side, or at least the centre, of said venn diagram!

If you collect 100 bog-standard mousetraps over the years (because of some interest in mice and traps) I doubt the DWP would be interested. I also doubt whether selling them would raise enough to buy a property.

If you collect 100 bottles of fine wine (or rare stamps, classic cars whatever) which increase in value over the years, I suspect the DPP would be interested. So

* what does the collection consist of?
* what is its current value?
* has its value increased over the years (hmmmmm... beware Capital Gains Tax too)?


As for your original question:

If I sell part of a large collection in order to buy a house while on ESA, does that count as savings?
Yes of course - you'd have cash in the bank which would need declaring.

Will I lose my benefits until I buy?
I'm no benefits expert and don't know how much you are allowed in savings before it impacts your benefits, nor do I know how much cash you will have raised.

If it would affect my benefits, will it be different if the buyer buys the house and exchanges it for the collection?

Well you'll have to declare ownership of the property.
And as discussed, you may have had to declare the Collection. But assuming the collection did/does not need declaring, or does not affect your benefits, then exchanging the collecion for a property would not affect your benefits.


Though ownership of a property may - I don't know.

JimmyTheWig

debs3759 wrote: »

I have collected things most of my life. It's a hobby, not an investment. I make use of things I collect.

Then I doubt you're going to get anything like £40k for them. Are you really saying that you've got 4000-8000 items in this collection worth £5-£10 each??

If the collection doesn't count as an investment and the money is only considered while it is in your bank account shouldn't be a problem. Losing benefits while you have the cash isn't the issue. To me it's a question of whether you can buy a house outright with cash and then claim benefits.

debs3759

I don't get why you are all so bothered about my obsessive collection possibly being worth something. Not as much as when bought and traded for, but more than nothing. So what if I have several thousand cheap items? What does that have to do with anyone?


My question was about if I sell a possession (as a collection I consider it one thing, even if sold as lots of dirt cheap items) for the purpose of helping me move somewhere I might feel safer for my retirement. As I said earlier in the thread, I will contact the DWP. I cannot see why they would have a problem with me having a collection. It's whether I can sell and buy a house (or land and a mobile home - that is cheaper) that I want to know. Not whether you guys think a collection of cheap obsolete parts should be professionally valued and declared from the moment I started collecting.

Comms69

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Then I doubt you're going to get anything like £40k for them. Are you really saying that you've got 4000-8000 items in this collection worth £5-£10 each??

If the collection doesn't count as an investment and the money is only considered while it is in your bank account shouldn't be a problem. Losing benefits while you have the cash isn't the issue. To me it's a question of whether you can buy a house outright with cash and then claim benefits.

Yes that is permissible.

Comms69

debs3759 wrote: »

I don't get why you are all so bothered about my obsessive collection possibly being worth something. Not as much as when bought and traded for, but more than nothing. So what if I have several thousand cheap items? What does that have to do with anyone?


My question was about if I sell a possession (as a collection I consider it one thing, even if sold as lots of dirt cheap items) for the purpose of helping me move somewhere I might feel safer for my retirement. As I said earlier in the thread, I will contact the DWP. I cannot see why they would have a problem with me having a collection. It's whether I can sell and buy a house (or land and a mobile home - that is cheaper) that I want to know. Not whether you guys think a collection of cheap obsolete parts should be professionally valued and declared from the moment I started collecting.

That doesn't make sense.


Ofcourse you can sell and buy, assuming you get enough money.


The matter that is important is whether the state would consider you to have fraudulently claimed benefits - which would obviously have serious consequences

swingaloo

i would be more worried about the possibility of buying a house and the upkeep.

You say you are nearing retirement, disabled and on benefits. Unable to walk far which probably means you are going to be unable to undertake much in the way of repair work yourself.

So buying a house which is in the range of 'cheapest inhabitable' for around 40 grand you are likely to be saddling yourself with something that needs work. How are you going to manage should the boiler go or roof require work once you have moved in with no savings.

CarrieVS

Comms69 wrote: »

That doesn't make sense.


Of course you can sell and buy, assuming you get enough money.


The matter that is important is whether the state would consider you to have fraudulently claimed benefits - which would obviously have serious consequences

OP's original question was whether the having the money from the sale, in the short term, would cause his benefits to be stopped until the purchase went through.

lisyloo

CarrieVS wrote: »

OP's original question was whether the having the money from the sale, in the short term, would cause his benefits to be stopped until the purchase went through.

I am pretty sure that having a 5-figure sum over 16K will affect ESA as it's a means tested benefit. Whilst it's cash it would be classed as savings.


I would suggest the benefits forum as there are people over there who know more about benefits.

theartfullodger

debs3759 wrote: »

I'm not going to list every £5 or £10 item I own and have in my collection. I have never in all my years been told that if you are unable to work you are not allowed to build a collection of something you enjoy! I thought this forum had experts, not armchair critics!

If you were thinking of me dear Debs, thank you for your kind thoughts.

Of course if you are unable to work you are allowed to build a collection of something you enjoy. But, depending on the value of that collection & any other assets, as I read it, with a value of over £16k (you indicated a value of some £40k), would not be entitled to ESA payments.

Simply declare your assets to the authorities, as required for ESA. Then if it's not a problem I'll have been wrong & you'll be confidently in the clear.

Leans back into his armchair.

Artful: (In receipt of 6 benefits - for the old , but has savings and assets somewhat over £16k: None of the 6 benefits has savings tests)

lisyloo

I've found a link here, whch whilst not directly relevant says personal possessions are disregarded (that is of course whilst they are not converted to cash)



https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/savings-over-60