Uk-cpm, leased car, no docs

Le_Kirk

aarkadian wrote: »

Hi Coupon-mad. Just curious about the last bit. Why not ask for a delivery that Gladstones and UKCPM have to sign for?

Because if they refuse to sign for it, they have proof positive that it wasn't delivered!

aarkadian

Thanks Le_Kirk. What crafty so-and-sos they are!


When I went to get a proof of posting the post office system didn't know the postcode that Gladstones quote on their letter, WA16 6AA. So the post office clerk gave me a proof of posting with a similar postcode, WA16AA, saying that the letter will get to them so I shouldn't worry. I only thought afterwards that because the proof of posting shows only the building name/number and postcode, it isn't much use to show that Gladstones received the letter if the postcode on the proof of posting is wrong! Any ideas?

Coupon-mad

Stop worrying. The address is specific enough to get there.

aarkadian

Thanks Coupon-mad

aarkadian

Hi again

My wife’s company is the hirer of the car, which is for my wife’s use (and my occasional use).

I originally challenged the PCN on behalf of my wife's company on the basis that they hadn't complied with POFA, by not sending all the relevant documents. The challenge said the following (remember, “I” in this, refers to my wife's company)

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by UK- Car Park Management Ltd (“UK-CPM”) as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.



You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why UK-CPM’s Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

Since my wife’s company named me as the driver, UKCPM have now sent me a notice to driver. I am thinking of writing back as above, but changing the wording from “hirer” to “driver”. But before I do I just wanted to check that with respect of POFA, do I as the driver, take on the role of the hirer, so that UKCPM should have sent those extra documents to me? And because they didn’t, I can challenge them and win?

I’ve tried reading POFA but it’s not easy. If anyone can shed some light on this I’d be grateful.

Coupon-mad

Coupon-mad wrote: »

If you are the robust one, and are willing to defend this as driver, get the company to name YOU and give your full & correct address for service of paperwork

aarkadian wrote: »

Since my wife’s company named me as the driver, UKCPM have now sent me a notice to driver. I am thinking of writing back as above, but changing the wording from “hirer” to “driver”.

I just wanted to check that with respect of POFA, do I as the driver, take on the role of the hirer, so that UKCPM should have sent those extra documents to me? And because they didn’t, I can challenge them and win?

You can't win at IAS appeal 2nd stage so NO TRYING AT ALL. But yes, I think you should appeal as authorised lessee and 'day to day keeper' on the material date, just to protect your position later in court.

I’ve tried reading POFA but it’s not easy.

I know I've read it a thousand times, but I've never seen an easier piece of law than Schedule 4, to read, even for the first time (and I have read a lot of laws!).

You seem to have 'got it'.

aarkadian

Well I sent them a letter as the named driver. It said that as I am the authorised lessee and 'day to day keeper' of this vehicle I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, and as they hadn't complied with paragraphs 13 and 14 they should cancel the charge.


I'd be grateful for your thoughts on these points:


(1) Actually it's my wife's company car which I drive from time to time, so I'm not entirely sure if I count as the authorised lessee and 'day to day keeper' of this vehicle.







P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }(2) They responded with a letter saying, in essence

You were the driver of vehicle at the time
You are not the registered keeper
So POFA 2012 does not apply

and

There was a breach of contract
The driver was liable
So POFA does not apply

KeithP

aarkadian wrote: »

Well I sent them a letter as the named driver.

Oh well.

You now have no need to brush up on POFA as you have thrown away any protection the POFA might've provided for the keeper.