ECP NTK and POFA

Leftynotreety

Hi,

Read the newbies thread and appealed an ANPR PCN sent as a NTK after parking on a pub car park for an hour without realising a ticket was required. I usedthe blue text from said newbies thread and have today received an email advising that my appeal is rejected.

The NTK references paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of POFA via which if the driver is not named, I as the keeper am liable for the charge.

The NTK was issued by ECP 36 days after the ‘date of event’. As there was no windscreen ticket, does this mean the keeper cannot be liable for the charge as it wasn’t issued within the 14 day timeframe?

If so, I obviously want to include this in my POPLA appeal, which I am now doing some reading for. Apologies if this is a daft question, and appreciate any helpful response!

Redx

its not a daft question

36 days is fine to a keeper (29 to 56 days after an event) for a windscreen ticket issued to a driver with no contact made

14 days is for when no windscreen ticket was issued, so 36 days fails POFA 2012 and the KEEPER is not liable

so yes include their POFA failings and stay hiding as keeper and no blabbing about who was driving


even if they added the correct paragraph, they failed the test of time, one failure = failure

Coupon-mad

The NTK was issued by ECP 36 days after the ‘date of event’. As there was no windscreen ticket, does this mean the keeper cannot be liable for the charge as it wasn’t issued within the 14 day timeframe?

Yep you win at POPLA, as long as the driver was not divulged.

The appeal needs to be slightly different if this is a lease, hire or company car and the delay was due to the registered keeper company naming you first.

Redx

just to clarify, our answers are if you are the keeper for a private vehicle, so not if its a company or hire vehicle etc


if it is a lease/hire vehicle, see edna bashers posts

Leftynotreety

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yep you win at POPLA, as long as the driver was not divulged.

The appeal needs to be slightly different if this is a lease, hire or company car and the delay was due to the registered keeper company naming you first.

Hmm - this muddies the water.

No - I have ‘t Named the driver. The car is a personal lease, and technically I am not the keeper (as I don’t hold the log book). However, the NTK specifically names me as the keeper, and I have no evidence that this went to or via VWFS who the car is leased from.

If I am named as keeper in the NTK - does the 14 day limit still stand?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

I think with a personal lease you might be the person on the V5C even thought you don't actually hold the log book (could be wrong). Who pays the car tax and who gets the DVLA email reminders about the car tax?

Leftynotreety

VW financial services pay the road tax. They have made no contact with me over this however, so i’m Not sure the DVLA will have directed ECP to them. Would explain the delay however.

As said, the NTK specifically states, ‘On xxxxxx you were the registered keeper of the vehicle xxxx xxx’

Thanks

Coupon-mad

I think VW financial services did pass on your data. Why not ask them, so you can understand which points to use at POPLA?

The fact ECP use a generic PCN rather than a Notice to Hirer, is normal for them and it's why you will win at POPLA.

It's either going to be 'no keeper liability' or 'no hirer/lessee liability' depending on if VW financial services were the rk and passed your detail on as lessee.

Leftynotreety

Thank you - i’ll Do that. I note that Edna Basher’s appeal template is written from the perspective of the lease company/fleet manager, rather than the driver.

As I have now progressed to POPLA, and I could well have been named as Keeper, does this mean I can’t use as defence the fact I didn’t receive the NTK until 36 days after the alleged event? If so, not so sure of my grounds for appeal as regards POFA.

Coupon-mad

I note that Edna Basher’s appeal template is written from the perspective of the lease company/fleet manager, rather than the driver.

Pretty sure there are two.

If you are at POPLA stage, just search:

Notice to Hirer POFA paragraph 14 POPLA.