Permit Parking on own land.Help needed.

happyandcontented

Long story short we had a permit parking scheme in operation on our road for approx 12 years.

Our side is unadopted and the land to the centre line is owned by us.

The scheme was rarely policed as per FOI documents showing times and dates and number of tickets issued. We decided to come out of the scheme and we advised the council that they could not re mark the bays on our property.

The council contested it but when asked to support their stance they went quiet. Fast forward 2 years of silence then a letter asking residents to vote re staying in the scheme or leaving it (The Traffic Regulation Order was still in force)

We voted against and emailed to say our stance was still that as owners we did not give permission to mark bays on our land.

The vote is in and apparently it was 10 in favour and 4 against so the scheme will remain. FOI request already is in to see the evidence!

The council have now indicated by letter they intend to mark out parking bays as they were when the scheme began and it includes our frontage.

Two points

1. What can we do now?

2. They sent letters to residents further down the street who have never been in the scheme ( and whose part of the road is also unadopted) but who have an interest as it prevents people parking on their frontages.

Clearly, this was to skew the vote, as I know few residents at this end would have voted in favour due to the lack of policing of the scheme.

FOI requests show policing of the scheme once every 4 weeks on average.

We have 3 family cars and 2 sons who visit almost every day. This means we need to pay for permits for 5 cars to park on our own land just to satisfy the council and make them revenue.

Any help really appreciated.

Coupon-mad

You mention a TRO, so are they saying they will operate decriminalised parking enforcement, with actual (non private) penalty charges issued by Council CEOs, under the TMA2004?

Or are they saying they are going to impose some scammer parking firm on you, to issue private PCNs?

Is yours a Council property, or Housing Association, or do you own it outright?

happyandcontented

Yes, we own the house, it is in a very residential area and has never been council owned.

It is the council who intend to reactivate the permit parking scheme and issue penalty charges.

Coupon-mad

Do you mean a Council permit scheme, and decriminalised parking enforcement (proper penalties) under a TRO?

Or do you mean they are trying to implement a private permit scheme with some scammer firm infesting the area issuing fake PCNs?

happyandcontented

Council permit scheme under a TRO.

Coupon-mad

We have 3 family cars and 2 sons who visit almost every day. This means we need to pay for permits for 5 cars to park on our own land just to satisfy the council and make them revenue.

I feel for you! Horrible.

I personally lobbied, in writing, both sides/every house (several hundred) in four long roads in my area, TWICE in the past 5 years, when twice the Council wrote to 'offer us the opportunity' of a permit scheme.

Both times it was voted out, by a large majority, and the local Councillors reported they were surprised!

LOL. I wasn't. I'm certain the residents' eyes were opened by what I told them, and that many would have believed the Council's spiel and would not have realised the true facts until it hit them too late.

We DO have parking problems as we are surrounded by permit areas, but the roads are narrow, so they are unsuitable to form a CPZ and we'd have lost half our parking space at least. And everyone with driveways would have had a double yellow line over-painted to replace the white 'H' bars that the residents had paid for. I think that little nugget of info did the trick.

So sorry you are having this imposed against your will, and the cost of permits being forced on you. I am not sure you can opt out if a vote was taken. The time to strike was when residents were lobbied by the Council, to steer them to your way of thinking.

happyandcontented

We own the land.....

Coupon-mad

Then you might be in for a legal fight to prove it.

Maybe you only own the subsoil? Not joking:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8388077.stm

happyandcontented

It is on our deeds. We also paid for the pavement. Prior to us paving it there was only dirt. We have no street lighting on our side of the road either.

Coupon-mad

Hmmm...sounds like you need the local Law Centre, or a free hour's meeting with a property law expert solicitor.

Try Googling for 'free law advice' and your town, and see where that leads you.

Another suggestion is to register and post on Legal Beagles forum.

happyandcontented

Thanks, I do intend to take some legal advice but I was just wanting to see if any of the knowledgeable parking people on here had any pointers to precedent or specific statutes that might cover this type of thing.

The subsoil link was interesting because of some of the judges' comments but the detail of the case isn't applicable to my issue.