Accidental underpayment (pence) now at LBC stage

kube

Hi,
A family member parked in a car park and accidentally underpaid (used to a different rate). They were very ill at the time and suffering from symptoms so mis-read the sign - it's an illness that any decent human would sympathise with and we have written medical evidence.


The underpayment was half the price of a packet of mints, yet the PPC is chasing for £100 + legal expenses. They have refused to accept the appeal and I have tried to offer a more reasonable payment (£25-£35) but it was not accepted. They (and their DCAs) have continued to hound this vulnerable individual with threatening letters.


This has now reached LBC stage so I'm wondering how to handle it. We have admitted that an offence (underpayment, though they describe it as overstay) was committed, TBH there was nothing wrong with the signage, it was just an honest mistake. I have written to the land owner but am yet to hear anything back.


Anyone with decency and common sense can see that £100 for an accidental underpayment of a matter of pence is not remotely fair, especially in light of the medical condition.


But how does being "fair" fare legally? If this goes to court what chance do we have? Are we just rolling the dice with whether we get a judge with a kind heart? Also this individual is still quite ill, and quite vulnerable, yet as I understand it they would still have to attend court (even if I can do the talking while we're there.) Is there a way that they can be exempted from attending, without losing by default?


Any advice much appreciated!

Coupon-mad

Which parking company and which solicitor, if any?

This has now reached LBC stage so I'm wondering how to handle it.

As per the NEWBIES thread section in the 2nd post, about LBC stage/court.

If this goes to court what chance do we have?

We see around a 99% court win rate on this forum, for 2 years...

Is there a way that they can be exempted from attending, without losing by default?

Of course, by waiting till a couple of weeks before the hearing, making the scammers think the D will be attending & then contact the Judge & Claimant in writing, saying the D cannot attend due to their medical condition and want the case heard on the papers.

And because you are here, those 'papers' will be the best you can get and possibly good enough for the C to discontinue anyway, hence why you do not tip them off that the D will not be attending, until the last fortnight.

The D wants them to think they will attend, as that's a harder proposition for the scammers.

Fruitcake

A court case can be heard "on papers" but puts the defendant at a disadvantage.
A lay rep (speaking on the defendant's behalf) is certainly an option but yes, the defendant still needs to attend.

If the motorist has a disability that is classed as a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010, then the court may take that into consideration, and could be used as a defence point.

I suggest you follow the guide to court from post 2 of the NEWBIES in any case as you have nothing to lose at this stage.

kube

Hi both,
Thanks for the prompt replies. Solicitor is BW Legal. Notorious scumbags.

I had read the Newbies thread but it felt like the process and examples there were more for things like unclear signage, authorised employees, valid ticket blew off dashboard etc. This case felt different (perhaps less viable) as it was human error, but a genuine contravention.

Would I still bother with the SAR given that I don't contest their claim? I just contest the fairness of it!

"hence why you do not tip them off that the D will not be attending"

… unless they read this thread! FWIW I read the guidance on the "Personal info in posts" thread.

"as you have nothing to lose at this stage."

Well... if you'd said I had no chance I might have been tempted to suggest the family pay the £160 (£100 + BWlegal), since going to court and losing might add ~£90 to that. But as I see it we're £160 in the hole right now, we can gamble: if we win we get £160 back, if we lose we lose an extra £90.... more to win than lose!


I wish I'd checked for typos in the thread title instead of just the original post! :-s

KeithP

kube wrote: »

I wish I'd checked for typos in the thread title instead of just the original post! :-s

Edit your thread title anytime you like.

Go into edit on your opening post, choose Go Advanced then type what you want in the Title box.

Fruitcake

Bother with everything!

All the advice is given for very good reasons so please don't think you should omit something.

The family member is a victim of an unregulated scam. Do not think they were in any way even partly to blame.

Please also complain to your MP.

Coupon-mad

They can't even legitimately add £60 to the £100, let alone another £90 on top.

kube

The £250 was based on advice in this forum - that if you go to court and lose the overall cost will be ~£250 (inc court fees etc.). It's certainly a lot better than the £10,000 that their DCA was trying to imply!

KeithP

kube wrote: »

It's certainly a lot better than the £10,000 that their DCA was trying to imply!

What?

I've never seen a letter like that.

Can you please show us - suitably redacted of course.

kube

Actually it turns out it was £24,500! Exact wording copied from DCA letter (warts and all):

On 13th January 2017 at Dundee Sherriff Court, George Way handed down judgment of £24,500 in favour of a parking operator whom also took a motorist to court for non payment of a parking charge.

A bit of research showed that it was a completely different situation (serial offender, over 200 offences, believed tickets were unenforceable.) But of course the DCA's intention is not to present facts but to quote a high figure in order to instil fear. It worked, to some extent - my relative was shocked and said to me "I can't afford £25,000! Shouldn't I just pay them the £179 now?" I reassured them, pointed out the irrelevance of the case and the dirty underhand tactic being used.

News reports of the case can be found via googling "24500 parking fine" (as a new user I can't post links!)

waamo

Dear old Carly. She even admitted everything. They can't make up massive amounts it's ridiculous.