Claim Form Received

DadofTwo81

Hi, Thanks so much for your comments!
I have submitted the defence and so I await the next steps, which I understand to be a directions questionnaire from the court?

I'm trying to summarise my lines of argument to help me get my head around it for when it comes to court:

1. Ask for proof of a technical breach of contract
2. Even if technical breach argue reasonable care taken to ensure compliance and so no claim
3. Argue that consumer acted in good faith at all times so no claim
4. Even if a breach, even if not efforts not reasonable, and good faith not considered relevant:
a) no lost revenue, not similar to Beavis so Penalty Clause, not allowable.
b) Maximum they could have anyway is on the notice to keeper
c) costs claimed not reflective of actual costs
d) Can't claim solicitors fees in SCC
5. Even if all that doesn't work, robo claim, rubbish particulars, no effort to engage with defendant before costs incurred, taking £1 tickets to court.

Is there anything else I am missing?

nosferatu1001

NEwbies thread, post 2, has the entire process covered. No need for questions on process, it is all covered there.

When it comes to court, havea skeleton argument prepared. You do this AFTER you see their WItness statement and evidence bundle and you have the totlaity of their claim at that point.

d) be very clear on tis. CPR27.14 tells you exactly wha tthey can claim. The only sol fees are the fees to file a claim. Nothing about court. Nothing elsewhere.

DadofTwo81

many thanks I will review the post again!

DadofTwo81

Hi All,
The next stage has arrived, I have received a letter from BW legal that their client intends to continue the claim and they have notified the court of such.


I understand the newbies post that I should sit tight and await the Directions Questionnaire, do not agree to the mediation service, fill out and return.


Wait for court date, file WS and Skeleton defence.
This I think I have down from the newbies thread. The question I have is: Is there anything I could or should be doing to prepare in the next stage, to avoid time pressures later?

KeithP

DadofTwo81 wrote: »

The question I have is: Is there anything I could or should be doing to prepare in the next stage, to avoid time pressures later?

Well yes.

Think about what goes into your Witness Statement.

Think about the evidence you may need.
For example, do you need pictures of signs? Probably best to get them sooner rather than later and find the PPC has changed them or put many more up.

Le_Kirk

DadofTwo81 wrote: »

I understand the newbies post that I should sit tight and await the Directions Questionnaire, do not agree to the mediation service, fill out and return.

Correct

DadofTwo81 wrote: »

Wait for court date, file WS and Skeleton defence.

You have already filed your defence, do you mean Skeleton Argument? This isn't compulsory, check out if you need one.

DadofTwo81

Hi All,
It's been a long while since the last post, but there have not been many significant developments since, but it is though about time to submit my evidence to the court and the claimant.

Therefore I wonder if anyone would be willing to lend me the benefit of their experience on the documents to submit and the witness statement:

Docs:
Copy of the Beavis Supreme court judgement
Copy of BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice
A copy of the ticket purchased
A copy of one of their particularly poor quality response letters
Should I submit a copy of all my correspondence with them?

Witness statement: (I have all the relevant court and claim info above and the statement of truth at the bottom but have not pasted here.

1. On X of X 2017 I parked my car at X
2. I purchased a ticket sufficient to cover my anticipated stay and returned to my car with the ticket.
3. It is my routine practice to put pay and display tickets that I have purchased onto my dash, close the door, and walk away, glancing back to check the ticket is still visible.
4. I have good factual memory and attention to detail.
5. I cannot recall specifically placing this ticket on my dash in this instance. I can remember very few instances of placing a ticket on my dash, ever.
6. My inability to remember this specific incidence cannot be taken as evidence that I did not do it; I can rarely recall closing the door to my house on any specific occasion, but I have never accidentally left my front door open on departing the house.
7. Accordingly, I therefore sincerely believe that this ticket was paid for and displayed on my dash.
8. Having paid only for 1 hour and having a number of items to attend to, I was conscious of the time and returned to my car within the allotted time and drove home.
9. On return to my house I noticed a PCN affixed to my windscreen and observed that this was for failure to display a valid ticket (it was unclear if it was not valid, or not displayed).
10. I supplied the claimant with evidence of a valid ticket for the time in question; they have elected to pursue this matter via litigation.
11. It is my position that the £85 (+ additional costs) sought by the claimants is not reflective of and is grossly disproportionate to the legitimate interest of the operator in this case, and therefore not enforceable.
12. I invite the Court to dismiss this claim in its entirety, and to award my costs of attendance at the hearing, such as may be allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14. (2) (d)
13. I request that in light of the claimants behavior in this matter (its refusal to engage in meaningful dialog, its needless delay in bringing this action, the speculative nature of this action, the poor quality, stock nature of it’s submissions, costs incurred before the claimant clarified it’s cause of action and attempts to use the courts to intimidate the lay public) be considered unreasonable behavior and ask the courts to awards such costs as may be allowable, pursuant to CPR 27.14 (2) (g).

Many thanks for everyone's help so far!

Coupon-mad

Have you waited till you got their WS first? We always recommend waiting till the last days before the deadline to file & serve your own WS, so you can use it to demolish theirs.

Therefore I wonder if anyone would be willing to lend me the benefit of their experience on the documents to submit and the witness statement:

Docs:
Copy of the Beavis Supreme court judgement
Copy of BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice
A copy of the ticket purchased
A copy of one of their particularly poor quality response letters

You never need to file the Beavis case as it is Supreme Court level = well known.

You don't need to file & serve the whole BPA CoP but you could select a page or two relating to something you think they breached.

You need to adduce copies of the signage as we doubt it requires a person to continuously display a ticket even once they've left the site.

You need the Council key cases if you can find them, as mentioned here in #6 and #7 of a fluttering ticket defence:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75833857#Comment_75833857

Some good wording there you can work into your WS.

Should I submit a copy of all my correspondence with them?

No.

DadofTwo81

Thanks for tour help Coupon!
I have not had their WS. However this needs to with them next week, so I wonder how much longer I can feasibly hold off?

Thanks for the info regards the SCJ. During the case I hope to refer to some of the specific points made by the judges. Whilst the case is well known - can I expect the judge to know the ruling that well, or would they automatically just bring their own copy knowing the background of the case?

I don't make reference to the signage in my case - they changed the terms of the contract shortly after my incident, so signage photos I could bring are of limited relevance. It seems like I shouldn't therefore include them - should I anyway? I could check what they currently say regards continuous display. If they don't say it, it might be supporting evidence?
In my case, I am asking the claimant to provide evidence that the contract entered into entitles them to what they claim.

Will find and serve the key council cases on the matter as suggested.

Coupon-mad

Whilst the case is well known - can I expect the judge to know the ruling that well, or would they automatically just bring their own copy knowing the background of the case?

You can expect them to know about the Beavis case not word for word) but the Judge is able to refer to it on their screen quickly if needed.

But if you want to take some pages (in triplicate to hand out to the Judge and the rep) with you on the day in your bundle, with highlighter on it to quote from the Judges, that's fine.

I don't make reference to the signage in my case - they changed the terms of the contract shortly after my incident, so signage photos I could bring are of limited relevance. It seems like I shouldn't therefore include them - should I anyway?

You absolutely categorically MUST say the signs are inadequate, in your WS. The entire contract hinges on clear terms on signs so you cannot let them get away with not having to prove what the signs said.

It's their case to prove, not yours - you just set out the banana skins!

I would not show pics of the new signs, but I would say in your WS that you are aware that they've changed the signs which suggests they were inadequate and/or failed an audit from their Trade Body, and put them to 'strict proof'.

Will find and serve the key council cases on the matter as suggested.

There is a Council Penalties TPT portal with key cases on it but I've always found it tricky to find decisions based on keywords. Good luck with finding them if not just quote them anyway.

I'd hang fire till 48 hours before you have to file & serve your WS/evidence.

Often they seem to post theirs to arrive at a weekend, not sure if it's deliberate to make the person and their family feel bombarded by their 32 page trash (or however many pages!) and give up. I reckon it will hit your doormat tomorrow or Monday.

When you scratch the surface, the holes in the WS & evidence are there so do not be intimidated by what on first cursory glance looks like they've covered all angles. Wrong, they never have and it's all a template of trash.