Brexit the economy and house prices part 7: Brexit Harder

SouthLondonUser

westernpromise wrote: »

As a matter of interest:

• who is our EU commission nominee?
• what is his manifesto?
• what were the alternative manifestoes defeated by him / her?
• when were the debates?
• where did he obtain his mandate?
• how do we vote him / her out? and
• why is he not Nigel Farage, leader of the party that won the EU elections in the UK?

It is national governments that decide nominees. You should therefore direct these questions at our PM.

Like I said, it is quite odd that Brexiters decry the current EU system which gives so much power to national governments, but would probably decry even more a system in which the European Parliament has more power than national governments!! I can imagine Brexiters shouting from the rooftops about a super-EU going against national governments...

Tromking

Arklight wrote: »

Until you get the change UK lot deciding they don't want to have anything to do with the platform that they are elected on. And starting a new party that their constituents had no say in and probably don't want.

How is it fair that Chuka Umana's constituents are now Lib Dems?

How is it fair that most of the civil service is preselected from expensive fee paying schools before they've got near an exam paper? An organisation where "diversity" means interviewing a couple of Russell Group candidates who went to state school?

No political system is perfect, the UK's certainly isn't.

I agree that the EU needs more transparency, but pretending that following the British system will offer that is pure fantasy.

Our system is not perfect, it’s my view only that it’s tangibly more democratic than the EU institutions.
Individual MP’s are accountable directly to their electorate. If enough of the Good Burghers of St. Reatham feel that Chuka is a political charlatan, he’s out on his ear in 2022.
The House of Lords is a democratic abomination and needs to go, and I’ll vote for the candidate next time round who says he/she will get rid.
That’s how it works, a clear line of democracy from me to Westminster, with Brussels on the other hand, the route is somewhat more circuitous.

Rinoa

After several days of opaque backroom dealings and horse-trading between 0.000005% of the EU’s population, the EU’s slate of new ‘Presidents’ was finally unveiled last night. Not a single one was on a ballot paper anywhere at the last EU elections, it’s a ragtag collection of undistinguished second-tier politicians unloved in their own countries and scandal-ridden appointees from the Davos circuit. Meet your new EU overlords:

European Commission President: Ursula Von Der Leyen. Who?

Daughter of a senior Eurocrat who was born in Brussels, she’s been German Defence Minister under Angela Merkel for five years. Her scandal-ridden stint in charge is widely regarded as a failure back home in Germany.
She thinks Brexit is a “burst bubble of hollow promises by populists”, supports a “United States of Europe” and is an enthusiastic cheerleader for an EU army, she even wrote about the importance of preventing “more democratic involvement” from “impeding Europe’s ability to act.” Nick Clegg eat your heart out…
It turns out she also plagiarised large parts of her doctoral thesis, but her university let her off as they said their had been no intent to deceive. She’ll fit right into Juncker’s shoes…

European Council President: Charles Michel

Former Prime Minister of Belgium who was ousted in a no confidence vote last December over a deportation scandal involving the dictatorial Sudanese regime. Naturally because it’s Belgium he’s still ‘interim Prime Minister’ more than six months later. He now gets rewarded for failure and doesn’t even have to move cities. Theresa May must be gutted she didn’t think of it first…

European Central Bank President: Christine Lagarde

Everyone’s favourite scandal-hit oompa-loompa is back, evidently the EU didn’t decide that being criminally negligent with €400 million of taxpayers’ money was a barrier to giving her the keys to the Central Bank.
She might actually have to take a slight pay cut from her whopping half a million tax-free a year from the IMF. Will she still be able to keep her delightful suntan topped up?

High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs: Josep Borrell

Spain’s pugnacious Foreign Minister and onetime European Parliament President has been embroiled in more scandals than Juncker’s had boozy lunches. He was forced to resign from the European University Institute over an undeclared €300,000-a-year conflict of interest. One insider tells Guido the board were just relieved to have any excuse to get rid of the worst president the EUI ever had…

He was fined €30,000 just last year for a “very serious breach” of insider trading rules on the Spanish stock market, his defence was that it was only 8% of his portfolio. I’m rich, it doesn’t matter!

He’s fiercely hawkish over Gibraltar, and also likes being highly aggressive with journalists and innocent Catalan protesters. Makes Trump look diplomatic…

You didn’t vote them in, you can’t vote them out, in fact they can do pretty much whatever they like while living off hugely generous salaries and expense accounts funded by your taxes. EU democracy at its finest once again…

Courtesy of Guido.

SouthLondonUser

Tromking wrote: »

Our system is not perfect, it’s my view only that it’s tangibly more democratic than the EU institutions.
Individual MP’s are accountable directly to their electorate.

As opposed to... ?

MEPs are voted directly by the European electorate. if you dislike what an MEP has or hasn't done, vote for someone else next time.

It is true that the European Parliament is not as powerful as a national parliament. But the other key power is the national governments, which make up the EU Council. If you don't like what your national government did on some EU matters, well, vote for someone else next time.

Tromking wrote: »

That’s how it works, a clear line of democracy from me to Westminster, with Brussels on the other hand, the route is somewhat more circuitous.

You forget that there are indirect appointments in both cases. You have little recourse if you dislike a specific EU Commissioner, but then you don't have much recourse if you dislike a specific British Minister, either. If they happen to run in your constituency, you can choose to vote for someone else; if they run elsewhere, not much you can do, other than maybe voting tactically for another party.

You also forget that appointments and decisions in a supranational entity like the EU will always be more convoluted, because the agreement of multiple countries is required.

SouthLondonUser

Rinoa wrote: »

You didn’t vote them in, you can’t vote them out, in fact they can do pretty much whatever they like while living off hugely generous salaries and expense accounts funded by your taxes. EU democracy at its finest once again…
.

I don't now enough about those people to have an informed opinion on whether/how qualified they are for the jobs.

However, I can and will comment on the usual nonsense Brexiters love to shout from the rooftops about lack of democracy accountability etc.

"You didn't vote them in and can't vote them out." Ehm, how is that different from the Central Bank Governor of pretty much any modern democracy?
Is the author advocating that central bank governors should be voted directly by the people (in which case he'd be wrong) or is he decrying only the ECB but forgetting that it's the same all over the world (in which case he'd be a hypocrite)

Tromking

@southlondonuser
My MP is a lawmaker, my MEP gets to vote on legislation dreamt up by an EU commissioner in private. A noticeable difference.
I potentially get rid of a Minister by voting for another party in a General Election.
I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.

shaggydoo

Tromking wrote: »

@southlondonuser
My MP is a lawmaker, my MEP gets to vote on legislation dreamt up by an EU commissioner in private. A noticeable difference.
I potentially get rid of a Minister by voting for another party in a General Election.
I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Your MP gets to vote on legislation dreamt up by the cabinet WHO NOBODY VOTED FOR .

It makes absolutely no difference who I vote for in an election in my constituency - Labour always win, as I live in a Labour safe seat. I can't even influence who's my MP, let alone who is in the cabinet.


Furthermore, it makes no difference who you voted for in the last GE as 100,000 Tory members are picking the next PM.



BJ is standing on a manifesto that involves a no deal Brexit, tax cuts,a spending splurge, relaxation of sin taxes, etc - nobody voted for him and nobody voted for his manifesto. HE HAS NO MANDATE.


Democratic my aris.

westernpromise

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

It is national governments that decide nominees. You should therefore direct these questions at our PM.

I wasn't expecting you to know any of the answers. Nobody does. But do we agree that there is absolutely no connection whatsoever between the results of the European Parliament elections, and the composition, goals, and agenda of the EU Commission - correct? There is no procedural reason why the supranational governing body could not be composed entirely of nominees from parties defeated in those elections, implementing their rejected agenda?

Analogously, the Lib Dems came fifth in the last general election. If the same principle as drives the EU Commission were to be imported into British constitutional arrangements, the government, regardless of the election result, would be the nominees of some other body? - the Lib Dem national convention perhaps. So we'd have a Lib Dem government and if I'm unhappy about that I should lobby the Lib Dems - that's broadly what happens, no?

FrankieBoyle

shaggydoo wrote: »

BJ is standing on a manifesto that involves a no deal Brexit, tax cuts,a spending splurge, relaxation of sin taxes, etc - nobody voted for him and nobody voted for his manifesto. HE HAS NO MANDATE.


Democratic my aris.

He's under pressure over this.

However, following the announcement, The Times revealed links between Johnson's campaign and the soft drinks industry.
One of Johnson's advisers and former spokesman, Will Walden, is employed by the lobbyists Edelman, which has worked for Coca-Cola.

Johnson's campaign also questioned the effectiveness of taxes on smoking.

They insisted that he remained committed to reducing smoking, but said that the government's policies on tax should be based on evidence.
One of Johnson's senior advisers is Mark Fullbrook, who co-founded CTF Partners with Johnson's former campaign chief Lynton Crosby. CTF has previously done work for the American tobacco company Philip Morris.

"He has serious questions to answer about the role of corporate lobbyists for the drinks and tobacco industry in his campaign. Boris Johnson has shown that his priority is representing the interests of his wealthy supporters, with no concern for the health and wellbeing of the general public."

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-lobbyists-sin-taxes-soft-drinks-tobacco-2019-7?r=US&IR=T


Seriously, who voted for this carp.

westernpromise

shaggydoo wrote: »

Your MP gets to vote on legislation dreamt up by the cabinet WHO NOBODY VOTED FOR .

It makes absolutely no difference who I vote for in an election in my constituency - Labour always win, as I live in a Labour safe seat. I can't even influence who's my MP, let alone who is in the cabinet.


Furthermore, it makes no difference who you voted for in the last GE as 100,000 Tory members are picking the next PM.



BJ is standing on a manifesto that involves a no deal Brexit, tax cuts,a spending splurge, relaxation of sin taxes, etc - nobody voted for him and nobody voted for his manifesto. HE HAS NO MANDATE.


Democratic my aris.

We hear this every time a PM changes, from those who oppose the party in power. In fact in the last 60 years there have been half a dozen such changes; it is entirely routine.