Pension credit cut sneaked in.

OhWow

calcotti wrote: »

I thought all councils based their CTR on joint income - albeit that the support given is often based on income bands.

Perhaps it is the rate of discount given, that is changing? I could never understand how a childless couple only getting income based JSA as money, could pay part Council Tax too.


I suppose we will find out who has to pay more on their CTR, in March when their 2019/20 bills come out?

calcotti

OhWow wrote: »

Perhaps it is the rate of discount given, that is changing? I could never understand how a childless couple only getting income based JSA as money, could pay part Council Tax too.

I suppose we will find out in March when then their 2019/20 bills come out.

It all became a nonsense when the government devolved Council Rax Reduction schemes to local authorities with some minimum requirements. Almost all councils now require working age people to pay at least some of their council tax regardless of income. Every year Council Tax goes up so the amount required goes up but working age benefit rates are still frozen as a result of government policy.

OhWow

calcotti wrote: »

It all became a nonsense when the government devolved Council Rax Reduction schemes to local authorities with some minimum requirements. Almost all councils now require working age people to pay at least some of their council tax regardless of income. Every year Council Tax goes up so the amount required goes up but working age benefit rates are still frozen as a result of government policy.

Council Tax never has been fair - a single elderly pensioner living on fixed income pays 75% of the CT band, whereas their younger neighbours could have 2 parents and their two adult children working, but they only pay 25% each of their CT band. We need a fairer system than that.

p00hsticks

OhWow wrote: »

Council Tax never has been fair - a single elderly pensioner living on fixed income pays 75% of the CT band, whereas their younger neighbours could have 2 parents and their two adult children working, but they only pay 25% each of their CT band. We need a fairer system than that.

Getting a bit off topic here, but council tax was never designed to be a 'per person' charge. The community charge (aka poll tax) was designed to be such a tax on an individual to fund local authorities, but the principle was widely protested against and therefore we then largely reverted to the idea of levying a charge per property as the rates system that it in turn replaced did.

There are arguments as to what is fair that go both ways.

A single elderly pensioner may live next to a family of 4 working adults but both houses will require an equal regular bin collection, the street lit, road repaired, a police and fire brigade presence etc

And the elderly pensioner may well require social care provided by the local authority which an ever increasing proportion of the council tax budget is now going to fund, whilst on the other hand not making use of the educational facilities that are also funded this way and that a younger family may use.

Scaredforthefuture

jeanmd wrote: »

Hi, This was sneaked out just before 8pm last night whilst everyone's eye are on Brexit.

I'm putting this here as I belive pension credit is a benefit and I can't see this anywhere else.

My husband and sister both retire in May next year, yet my sister will receive £13,273 and my husband only £5,986.68 due to my sister being a widow and hubby married and I'm not due to retire for aother couple of year after him. I am his full time carer, so I will have to claim universal credit now rather than us being able to live of his pension.



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pension-credit-cut-benefits-payment-government-austerity-conservatives-brexit-a8728631.html

Moneybox at 12.00 today on Radio 4 are discussing changes to Pension Credit -

OhWow

p00hsticks wrote: »

A single elderly pensioner may live next to a family of 4 working adults but both houses will require an equal regular bin collection, the street lit, road repaired, a police and fire brigade presence etc

For the family of four working adults: at least four times the amount of rubbish; at least 4 cars on the road; at least 4 times more likely to need the police etc They are likely on a higher income each than the single elderly pensioner. They can get more money by working more hours whereas an elderly pensioner might not be able to increase their income.


Those who have more than two working adults in their household might like this system, but it seems a poor reflection on our society to ask the elderly to sub a family of more than two adults.


A Council Tax for every single adult, is a much fairer system.

p00hsticks

As I said in my previous post, there are different interpretations of 'fair'.

OhWow wrote: »

For the family of four working adults: at least four times the amount of rubbish;

But it won't be collected four times more often

OhWow wrote: »

at least 4 cars on the road;

So they'll be paying additonal taxes in the form of fuel duty and road tax - whilst the pensioner will be in receipt of a free bus pass (coming out of council tax funding)

OhWow wrote: »

at least 4 times more likely to need the police etc

Of course, at least one of these adults might actually be a member of the police force, fire brigade, a bus driver driving the pensioner, a refuse collector or a care worker providing home visits to the pensioner.

OhWow wrote: »

They are likely on a higher income each than the single elderly pensioner. They can get more money by working more hours whereas an elderly pensioner might not be able to increase their income.

And a higher income means more income tax paid, so more money going into the system. And there is a council tax reduction scheme for those in hardship (which, returning to the original subject of the thread, those on pension credit are automatically passported on to).

OhWow wrote: »

Those who have more than two working adults in their household might like this system, but it seems a poor reflection on our society to ask the elderly to sub a family of more than two adults.

Given that one of the biggest recent increases in local authority costs recently has widely been stated to be in social funding for the elderly, it's not necessarily the case that a single pensioner household is subsidising a family of four working adults in terms of council expenditure - they may well be costing the local authority considerably more.

OhWow wrote: »

A Council Tax for every single adult, is a much fairer system.

Perhaps when BREXIT is finally dealt with, one of the political parties may consider putting such a proposal in their manifesto.

But it would be brave move considering the social unrest that resulted the last time an attempt to implement such a change was made - some of us are old enough to remember the 'poll tax riots' (and are therefore getting close to pension age ourselves).

,, and this is perhaps better off being taken over to Discussion time, as we are getting way off track here...

xylophone

Given that one of the biggest recent increases in local authority costs recently has widely been stated to be in social funding for the elderly,

Some of those elderly are subsidising the council if privately funding their care home fees.....

SandraScarlett

xylophone wrote: »

Some of those elderly are subsidising the council if privately funding their care home fees.....

So true. If you were thrifty during your working years, and put money away for a rainy day, you can expect to be charged up to £1200 a week, certainly in Greater London, in a Care Home.

xylophone

you can expect to be charged up to £1200 a week

....and more...