Money Moral Dilemma: Should I go back and pay for my train ticket?

musicmonkey1

My daughter tried to pay for her rail ticket at her destination station and unbelievably instead of taking the payment the rail company fined her for travelling without a ticket! It was featured in our local press at the time and the rail company's response was that it is an offence to travel without a ticket. (Predictably this was Southern Rail).


This confirms the post by firebubble below.

ButterflyLC

Gillbrah wrote: »

In Germany they operate an honesty policy, whereby there are no "ticket barriers" but you are expected to pay for your ticket. Anyone caught on a train with no ticket is issued a fine, but I have never seen a single ticket officer while I've been there. I bet at least 25% of people don't buy tickets either once in a while or ever. I wonder if they have these type of threads over on Sparen Sie Geld Experte (I made that up), I think not.

Not strictly true as every train has a ticket conductor. I have never been on a train where tickets weren't checked. Police, who are armed as standard. have every right to stop trains and buses and check tickets. Never seen one on a tram though. The system exists here too. Sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't. We have barriers, they have members of staff. They also have ticket machines on trains, which is a great idea.

In this instance, no I wouldn't go back and pay. You wanted to pay, they allowed you to travel and had a conductor came to check tickets you would have bought one on the train. It's also not your fault a ticket machine or manned office was not provided at the end destination. You saved some cash this time, you'll pay next time. No dilemma.

JezR

I have had my ticket checked many times on German trains, and on local city transport. The 'controllers' will take no excuse if you travel without a ticket; the kind of excuses people try to make here such as I was too late, or I don't live here so made a mistake don't wash with them.

This was posed as a moral question and from that alone payment is due, since the questioner arrived with no time to pay for a ticket and hasn't yet done so, yet has used the service. As above it is down to the questioner whether to act.

The legal lesson is that you should be very cautious to rely just on the word of anyone at the departing station, as they have no right to vary the National Rail Conditions of Travel unless they are 'authorised' - and how would you know and prove it later if challenged.

Rosemary7391

JezR wrote: »

I have had my ticket checked many times on German trains, and on local city transport. The 'controllers' will take no excuse if you travel without a ticket; the kind of excuses people try to make here such as I was too late, or I don't live here so made a mistake don't wash with them.

Until recently my local stations didn't have ticket machines or staff, so you could only buy on train or at the destination. And one of the local stations has an office (frequently unstaffed) and no machine. Between machines breaking down, only taking cards and staff being unavailable it can still be quite hard to buy a ticket. I usually draw a line at spending 10 minutes (longer than my typical journey) attempting to buy a ticket. It happens more often that I buy a return and only use half of it so it'll all come out in the wash.

REJP

Depends on how you have been brought up. I was taught to always be honest, so I would try to pay on my next journey.
I can understand why people paying a lot of money for tickets who often suffer from delayed journeys and therefore miss work might want to avoid paying, but there is a mechanism to claim compensation for delays.
The more people travel without paying means increases in fares in the end for those who pay.
This seems to me to be an Infant 5 lesson on honesty. Who dreamed the question up?

JezR

Rosemary7391 wrote: »

Until recently my local stations didn't have ticket machines or staff, so you could only buy on train or at the destination.

Which in the UK means "you must, as soon as you are reasonably able, buy an appropriate Ticket to complete your journey". In the case of many other countries though this would not be relevant as there could be other alternatives you are expected to do. Indeed in some cases tickets would neither be available at the station (or stop), nor on the mode of transport itself.

It is one of the holes in the question posed that no attempt is referred to about buying on board, although there might not be someone there to buy from in reality.

Goodetami

For most businesses I'd say pay it back but given my experience with revenue protection on the trains....no way

E.g. i was also once told to buy a ticket at my destination by a staff member, only for revenue to try and fine me at the other end as they couldnt get hold of said staff member on the phone. I outright refused to give my details as it wasnt my fault, they allowed me to buy the ticket in the end but made me late for an important meeting - my working time they wasted was worth way more than the fare

Not the only run-in with them where ive had a negative outcome as a result of staff not doing their job properly whilst I was 100% not to blame

In short, Ive lost money and been subject to large volumes of stress due to their incompetence and so i wouldnt think twice in your scenario. If youve not had any of this BS to deal with then you may have a different POV.

If you are an honest fare paying passenger (like me) who is treated with utter contempt for things that aren't your fault - then their inability to collect your fare despite your 100% intention to pay it, is their problem, and not yours in my opinion

pollypenny

In addition to lack of staff or ticket machines, another of the rail owners little tricks would suggest that the OP shouldn't sweat about this free trip.

I mean the way travellers are charged large amounts if there's an error with their rail card or get a train five minutes earlier than the one they booked.

The latter happened to us train from Crewe to Euston. Electronic timetable showing Euston as next train, but about 3 minutes earlier than booked. No other train was shown, so we simply assumed the train had made up time.

Oh, no! We were treated like cheats! We did not have to lay eventually as there were others arguing with the ticket guy, but we were spoken to like naughty kids.

Stoke

Absolutely not..... if it was Nationalised then yes I would, but to be quite honest, a bunch of slimy private train companies don't really deserve our money, especially when you consider how poor the service is.

Enjoy the fact you got away with it. I do..... every time

Stoke

Goodetami wrote: »

For most businesses I'd say pay it back but given my experience with revenue protection on the trains....no way

E.g. i was also once told to buy a ticket at my destination by a staff member, only for revenue to try and fine me at the other end as they couldnt get hold of said staff member on the phone. I outright refused to give my details as it wasnt my fault, they allowed me to buy the ticket in the end but made me late for an important meeting - my working time they wasted was worth way more than the fare so screw them.

Not the only run-in with them where ive had a negative outcome as a result of staff not doing their job properly whilst I was 100% not to blame

In short, Ive lost money and been subject to large volumes of stress due to their incompetence and so i wouldnt think twice in your scenario. If youve not had any of this BS to deal with then you may have a different POV.

If you are an honest fare paying passenger (like me) who is treated with utter contempt for things that aren't your fault - then their inability to collect your fare despite your 100% intention to pay it, is their problem, and not yours in my opinion

The train companies are rarely held accountable. Everyone who gets a free ticket should do a happy dance as far as I'm concerned. That's the contempt I have towards Network Rail.

About 10 years ago, I was on a train heading home and I had hopped on at a station with no ticket machine. Not my fault but no issue though because I can just pay on the train right? Wrong. Their card machine was playing up (it was one of the early Chip and Pin jobbies) and repeatedly refused to connect. Nothing wrong with my card.... No 'insufficient funds' or 'declined' error, the machine was essentially failing to connect to whatever system it uses to process payments.

"No problem, I have a twenty right here" Ticket inspector had no change. He continued his walk down the train before returning and telling me because I had no ticket and no means of paying for one, he was obliged to fine me £20. He said "you could have got a permit to travel" but that machine has been out of order at the station for about 15 years and counting. I steadfast refused and he demanded I walk down the train with him. Knowing my stop was next, I waited until the train was stopped and then simply darted off. Bye fella.