Estate agent didn't remove me from TA

Chris_H123

Hi There,

Was sent in this direction from the credit rating part of the forum to see if I could get any advice.

I was in a joint tenancy with me father which started in Dec 2015 and was initially a year.

In Feb 2017 I delivered a letter to the estate agent serving notice, he then acknowledged with an email stating "in was in the process of trying to take me off the TA"

Fast forward to the start of 2018 I start to receive calls from the estate agent chasing rent arrears, I pointed out to him that ive not lived at the property for well over a year which he acknowledged and that he needs to pursue my father, he stated that I was still on the tenancy agreement because my father did not have the affordability to live on his own so I was left on. I then bombarded him with emails and phonecalls requesting he removes me.

Fast forward again to the end of 2018 he calls me and tells me he is going to take my father to court but as I am on the tenancy agreement I will be liable too, I asked him to notify me when the court date is and that I will make my own representation will all the proof I have that id moved out in feb 2017.

At the court case my father did not turn up and I had a file of evidence showing I did not live there ( even an email from the local council) but the judge didn’t want to hear or see any of it and assumed I still lived there.

The Judge issued a CCJ against me and my father and stated I am liable.

My issue is that the estate agent was fully aware and acknowledged in an email that he knew I didn't live at the property and was in the process of trying to remove me from the TA, should me serving notice not lead to the estate agent serving notice on my father as the affordability clearly wasn't there?

Any advice would be appreciated the situation is becoming extremely stressful for me.

Thank you

Chris

Pixie5740

Chris_H123 wrote: »

Hi There,

Was sent in this direction from the credit rating part of the forum to see if I could get any advice.

I was in a joint tenancy with me father which started in Dec 2015 and was initially a year.

In Feb 2017 I delivered a letter to the estate agent serving notice, he then acknowledged with an email stating "in was in the process of trying to take me off the TA"

Fast forward to the start of 2018 I start to receive calls from the estate agent chasing rent arrears, I pointed out to him that ive not lived at the property for well over a year which he acknowledged and that he needs to pursue my father, he stated that I was still on the tenancy agreement because my father did not have the affordability to live on his own so I was left on. I then bombarded him with emails and phonecalls requesting he removes me.

Fast forward again to the end of 2018 he calls me and tells me he is going to take my father to court but as I am on the tenancy agreement I will be liable too, I asked him to notify me when the court date is and that I will make my own representation will all the proof I have that id moved out in feb 2017.

At the court case my father did not turn up and I had a file of evidence showing I did not live there ( even an email from the local council) but the judge didn’t want to hear or see any of it and assumed I still lived there.

The Judge issued a CCJ against me and my father and stated I am liable.

My issue is that the estate agent was fully aware and acknowledged in an email that he knew I didn't live at the property and was in the process of trying to remove me from the TA, should me serving notice not lead to the estate agent serving notice on my father as the affordability clearly wasn't there?

Any advice would be appreciated the situation is becoming extremely stressful for me.

Thank you

Chris

Read the Tenancies in England and Wales sticky at the top of the board. It explains how an AST can be ended. You moving out does not mean the joint tenancy ended.

Parkingfines

OP as stated in your other post on the other board.

Anything else is completely irrelevant. (sorry if this sounds harsh)

You have 21 days to appeal a decision in the county court. You can only appeal if the judge has erred in law.

ThePants999

Hang on Pixie - he didn't just "move out":

Chris_H123 wrote: »

In Feb 2017 I delivered a letter to the estate agent serving notice

If you really did serve valid notice, you're in the clear. However, the judge would have known this, so unless your defence was terrible, I imagine whatever you served probably wasn't valid notice.

FWIW, if it WAS valid notice, there was a major goof here because your notice would have ended the tenancy for your father too!

Pixie5740

ThePants999 wrote: »

Hang on Pixie - he didn't just "move out":



If you really did serve valid notice, you're in the clear. However, the judge would have known this, so unless your defence was terrible, I imagine whatever you served probably wasn't valid notice.

FWIW, if it WAS valid notice, there was a major goof here because your notice would have ended the tenancy for your father too!

You hang on

To end a joint tenancy ALL tenants must move out, not just one of them. In fact if the landlord could pursue the pair of them for double rent.

Chris_H123

Thanks for all responses.

I think I'm going to just accept defeat here.

ThePants999

Pixie5740 wrote: »

You hang on

To end a joint tenancy ALL tenants must move out, not just one of them. In fact if the landlord could pursue the pair of them for double rent.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/joint_tenancies

If you don't have a fixed-term tenancy or it has ended and not been renewed, you or any other joint tenant can end the tenancy by giving a valid notice to quit to the landlord.

You can do this with or without the agreement of the other joint tenants. The tenancy ends for all the joint tenants.

When the notice to quit expires none of you has the right to continue living there.

The notice should have ended the tenancy. Whether the tenant(s) who DO move out can be chased for double rent because of the failure of one or more other tenants to move out is an interesting question I haven't come across before, though I'd be surprised if a judge enforced that!

G_M

Chris_H123 wrote: »

I was in a joint tenancy with me father which started in Dec 2015 and was initially a year.
Then what happened?New fixed term (how long?), or periodic?

In Feb 2017 I delivered a letter to the estate agent serving notice, he then acknowledged with an email stating "in was in the process of trying to take me off the TA"
For now, I'll assume the tenancy was periodic from Dec 2016.
So notice by one tenant (if properly served) ends the tenancy for all tenants.
But all tenents must then vacate (unless a new tenancy is agreed between the LL and one or more of the tenants).

Fast forward to the start of 2018 I start to receive calls from the estate agent chasing rent arrears,

I assume from this that when the notice expired
* no new tenancy was created (eg with the other joint tenant) AND
* all joint tenants failed to vacate

Therefore liability for rent continued (indeed could be charged at double rent for failing to vacate as per the notice). This applies to all the original joint tenants.

I pointed out to him that ive not lived at the property for well over a year
Where you live is irrelevant. The status of the tenancy is key.

which he acknowledged and that he needs to pursue my father, he stated that I was still on the tenancy agreement because my father did not have the affordability to live on his own so I was left on.
There you go!
When your notice expired, since father was not offered a new tenancy, the property should have been vacated by all (both) joint tenants. Failure to do this meant both joint tenants remained liable (for double rent!)

I then bombarded him with emails and phonecalls requesting he removes me.
Wow! Harrassment!???

Fast forward again to the end of 2018 he calls me and tells me he is going to take my father to court but as I am on the tenancy agreement I will be liable too,

Understandable if your father has limited assets and may be unable to pay even if the LL wins.

I asked him to notify me when the court date is and that I will make my own representation will all the proof I have that id moved out in feb 2017.
As explained, moving out does not end liability.

At the court case my father did not turn up and I had a file of evidence showing I did not live there ( even an email from the local council) but the judge didn’t want to hear or see any of it and assumed I still lived there.
Surprised he assumed that, but not surprised he found you liable under the tenancy.

The Judge issued a CCJ against me and my father and stated I am liable.
Indeed

My issue is that the estate agent was fully aware and acknowledged in an email that he knew I didn't live at the property and was in the process of trying to remove me from the TA,
"trying to remove me" seems key here. He then realised he could not offer dad a tenancy, so no replacement tenancy was created.

should me serving notice not lead to the estate agent serving notice on my father as the affordability clearly wasn't there?

No. You dserved notice but you (plural) failed to vacate.
Yes the LL/agent could have taken legal steps to evict your father, but if the rent was still being paid (under the continuing tenancy), why evict?
It was only later when arrears developed that the LL/agent took legal steps - against both joint tenants.

Not what you want to hear, but the court appears to have reached the correct legal decision.


Note. Re the double rent:
Distress For Rent Act 1737 S18 (Double rent if tenant stays after giving notice) and
Landlord and Tenant Act 1730 S1



explanation

Chris_H123

Thanks for responding I've accepted it and will have to deal with it.

Chris_H123

And yes it was periodic as no new TA was signed after the FT had expired.

HampshireH

If you pay the CCJ asap you can apply to have it removed I believe. If not this will hinder you for years to come