BW Legal and Armtrac Security

Bakerbl

Also I did not realise it was from October.

5am in October? Maybe it looked different under the Armtrac staff’s torchlight?

Mortskii

Hi Bakerbl

Thanks for your comments. Yes it looks like we have similar issues so good to share advice/experiences. I have issue the SAR to Armtrac and now awaiting response. I will have my LBC rebuttal ready to go by the end of the week. Interesting to note that you feel that I should not be involved in the case and that the issue is between Armtrac, Landowner and holiday home owner as to what constitutes a valid permit - I hadn't considered this. Instead I am relying on written evidence from holiday home owner and Landowner that the permit was fully paid for, in date and fully valid. The only explanation I have had from Armtrac (from the initial appeal) is that the permit is a photocopy and not valid. Seems crazy to me that BW Legal will take this to court once they have the evidence but I will wait and see!

Coupon-mad

In both your cases, if this was not a photocopied permit and/or Armtrac cannot produce evidence that it was photocopied, I would consider striking first and sending them a Letter Before Claim for the significant distress caused by misuse of your data, and demands for money and allegations of fraudulent use of a permit that are wholly unwarranted, defamatory and a breach of the Protection from Harassment Act.

Cite the case of Ferguson v British Gas (Google and read it) and invite Armtrac to withdraw their defamatory and untrue allegation that this was a photocopied permit. Attach your evidence that it was not (email from the flat owner).

Give Armtrac 21 days to reply (state that at the end, where you point the way ahead) and head the letter up Letter before Claim, with a sum (say, £500) you intend to claim if they fail to apologise for the slur and distress and withdraw the PCN within that time.

£500 would cost you only £35 up front if you used MCOL...

https://www.compactlaw.co.uk/compactlaw-admin/court-fees.html

In cases where a PPC clearly has no evidence and no case, I suggest a LBC to them, then a claim by the 'victim' is the way forward.

IMHO it should have the desired effect if robust and well worded, and if not the issue the claim with our guidance about your grounds for seeking £500 for distress...

Make sure you are both CERTAIN of your ground and that it wasn't a photocopy...

Mortskii

Things have taken an slightly unexpected twist.

The landowner (who is very difficult and also out of the country) has refused to corroborate that the permit is valid and not a photocopy having viewed the photographs provided by Armtrac on the day.

I do however have all the documents from the holiday home owner that the space was paid for in full at the time of the offence and he had sole permission to use the space.

Will the fact that there was no financial loss to the Landowner and that I had paled in good faith with the permit provided be enough for a defence in court?

If not, where do I stand legally on claiming the money back from the holiday home owner as it was he who supplied the permit?

The_Deep

The landowner (who is very difficult and also out of the country) has refused to corroborate that the permit is valid and not a photocopy having viewed the photographs provided by Armtrac on the day.

Whether it is a photocopy or not is surely immaterial. My estate agent recently happily accepted a copy of my passport for money laundering purposes. Mortgage companies are content to accept copies of bank statements, the PPC is being precious.

Does the PCN's signage specifically state that a photocopy is unacceptable? .

Umkomaas

Will the fact that there was no financial loss to the Landowner and that I had paled in good faith with the permit provided be enough for a defence in court?

Financial loss to the landowner would only be relevant if the landowner was suing you (but then ParkingEye v Beavis might impact). You having paid and displayed the permit will obviously be a starting point for a defence.

If not, where do I stand legally on claiming the money back from the holiday home owner as it was he who supplied the permit?

Not sure why you're asking a parking tickets forum for legal opinion. Try Legal Beagles forum.

Coupon-mad

Will the fact that there was no financial loss to the Landowner

NO...

and that I had paled in good faith with the permit provided be enough for a defence in court?

Could be.

nosferatu1001

IF you suffer a loss due to the permit being "defective", then you sue the holiday home owner, obviously. Youcan ask nicely, but I doubt they would comply.