'Deep' & 'Meaningful' - why are some people good with money?

Conrad

millionaire_in_training wrote: »

oo Controversial subject !!
I know why I am in debt and am working on getting out of it. I tried to make up to my kids the fact their dad had left us by buying them constantly. I dressed them in GAP etc when I can only afford GEORGE. I am better now but still find myself getting sucked in. An example is that ex said to DD he would buy her a pink phone then he didnt so I felt that I had to get her it, I could have left her without one but I hated seeing her disappointment. Not sure I will ever stop doing this but at least I am trying to do it within my spending range now.x

Sounds a nice fella!

Comming back to the choices people affecting thier outcomes (rather than it being luck);
I have some female customers who choose snakes over and over again, so they end up getting bit more! Again is this luck?
Definitely not.

Thier willingness to accept partners that are more likely to cause them stress which will include financial stress, is the route of the problem.

Then some will say "but he seemed so nice in the beginning"
Possibly but there will have been early signs, so again bad luck didnt play apart. What did play a part was thier willingness to overlook his really bad points early on.

PS - the women I find attractyibe are those that play hard to get (I mean really play, not just pretend for a couple of weeks)!

busydaffodil1

I dont have an opinion on other peoples debts or how they got them.
The one word that describes my constant obsession with owing everyone nothing is SECURITY.
I'll not go into details but as a child I was abused by 1 of the 2 people in a childs life that are suppose to love you the most. The outcome for me was that I felt constantly insecure. In my adult life this insecurity lead me to need security.
Even though I am married, I am 100% financially independant, own no money to anyone and I do not allow people to do anything for me for free.
My employment has been engineered to obtain maximum security too. I am self employed and have been since 18 yrs old. No-one can make me unemployed now, only myself.

mkbean

"The millionaire next door" is a very enlightening book on this subject, although its based on research from the US.

Kevicho

I think this could be an interesting debate.

I think there are several reasons why people have differing "luck" when it comes to money.

1) Education

In 16 years of school life (i went to uni and college for specific training) i didnt once come across any sort of financial advice, the closest we came was in history once with a making money sort of game, but that wasnt really that useful.

I think now there are some lessons which go some way towards the basics, but i doubt anything in the nature of whats being discussed on these boards is included.

2. Peer Pressure/Media

Keeping up with the jones, envy, fitting in.
All natural human emotions, which can leads to overspending.

3. Addictions

Todays society revolves around the quick thrill, gambling, drugs, alchohol and whatever else costs money.
Fast lifestyle, fast drainage of savings and wages.

4. Global market

With lots of jobs being outsourced, and the immigrant population taking up to 50+% of the new UK jobs, its easy to see how unemployement could rise, leaving britons without an income.

5. The Monthly Mentality

We pay for things in monthly installments, ie loans, furniture, store cards, etc.
We are told that we can afford it if we can fit it in our monthly budget.
But too much of this leads to little or no cashflow every month.
Thus saving becomes impossible.

6. Rip Off Britain

Things are too expensive here, end of discussion.

7. High taxation

Everything is taxed, and in my opinion nothing seems to improve.
Less i am taxed, the more money I have to save or invest.

8. Unexpected circumstances

Illness, injury cannot be predicted.
But it can be planned for, unfortunately items 5/6/7, means that people cant afford to plan ahead, and if they do lose there income then there outgoings quickly exceed there income, thus eating up savings or creating debt.

9. The ease of accesibility to credit.

I truly beleive this is leading to higher prices for everything in this country.
Just whack it on the card itll be ok, the merchants know this and can afford to raise there prices accordingly.

System

Interesting subject to discuss and although I am not sure with the OPs tone in the OP, I believe like with anything in life, vitrually everything we do, our opinions, our mannerisms, our respect for other people and other people's property and spending habits stems almost entirely from our upbringing and that is not to say of course that anyone's upbringing is wrong. Thankfully we are all different and it is one of the things that makes the world go round. I also believe that a lot of British traditional values appear to be disappearing into the ether as we appear to be losing our National identity; values that have stood in good stead previously.

bridget81

conrad, can i ask, are you saying debt is a form of learnt behaviour?

fc123

Sorry Conrad, but i've read some of your posts and the smugness sometimes oozes out of them...one poster wanted advice on her business...and you just posted that YOUR business didn't have debt......goody 4 you......how was that helpful to her?????

As a mortgage advisor / loan seller let's hope you're luck stays good for the next 10 yrs during the credit crunch.

Were the miners and steelworkers in the Eighties "just" UNLUCKY?
Whole communities took years to recover from the mass redundancies.

Conrad...pride comes before a fall....if you have no practical or sympathetic advice to those that post on this board....go over to another please.

ZTD

fc123 wrote: »

As a mortgage advisor / loan seller let's hope you're luck stays good for the next 10 yrs during the credit crunch.

I'm afraid the credit system is going to end up getting pecked to death by black swans...

rog2

Conrad wrote: »

Ok, you've just given a classic demonstration of 'externalising' things that are in fact within YOURE control.

People who achieve good financial outcomes REGARDLESS OF INCOME LEVEL, are those that from an early age allow for lifes ups and downs.

Please do not tell me that I have given a classic demonstration of 'externalising things that are in fact within my control' - You know absolutely NOTHING about my personal circumstances and are totally unqualified to make such a comment.

It is TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE to predict life's ups and downs - the people who achieve what you call 'good financial outcomes REGARDLESS OF INCOME LEVEL' do so simply because they have had fewer of life's downs than ups.
Every thinking person tries to allow for the occasional 'down' but NOBODY - not even someone who claims to be as successful as you obviously do, can predict the future with any reasonable degree of accuracy.

I am, therefore, now of the opinion that you started this thread in order to provoke argument, rather than discussion, and to divert attention away from the primary purpose of DFW, which is 'dealing with debt in a supportive and non-judgemental manner'.

Your argument is both highly judgemental and totally unsupportive of the majority of posters on this forum.

Please read MSE MARTIN's thread about the DFW board before making any further comments.

Thank you.

gallygirl

fc123 wrote: »

Were the miners and steelworkers in the Eighties "just" UNLUCKY?
Whole communities took years to recover from the mass redundancies.

I do agree with some of what Conrad says. And as for the above post: I live in a community which was decimated by steel closures, some would say it has never recovered. However, how people reacted to it was different. Remember, these were people who, even if unskilled, with overtime etc were earning a LOT of money, probably the equivalent of 50k. It also coincided with the rush to buy council houses.

The 1st lot spent their redundancy. The most sensible of these bought their houses.

Others just blew it. This was at a time where a lot were paid in cash & didn't have bank accounts. Some signed their interim cheque for 1k over to a mate who would cash it for £900. Others put it behind the bar of their local. This isn't an urban myth - my friend's dad was a landlord & I actually saw some of the cheques.

Others grasped the opportunity with both hands. In addition to large pay-offs they got cracking training packages and wages help if they took a lower paid job (it was either 100% for a year then 90% or 90% then 80%). They retrained as anything from nurses to central heating engineers, and some did really well. However, many were held back by lack of entry level qualifications. And some did great for a year or two installing double glazing etc in the newly bought council houses, without thinking about what they'd do when their customers redundancy money ran out.

The most successful were those who had planned ahead. It was obvious that the closures were coming. They'd thought about what they wanted to well in advance and had worked towards it. So unskilled workers went to college part time, or did OU degrees and ended up being able to train as teachers etc. One I know of went from being an unskilled worker in the blast furnaces to being headmaster of a senior school (and what a lesson he could teach pupils!). Lucky? (I actually heard him described as that!). Yes, in that he got the right breaks at the right time. However, what REALLY counts is that he put himself in the situation where he could take advantage of the breaks.

So, after all that I suppose I'm saying that with foresight you can help equip yourself for (some of) what life throws at you. And take advantage of the breaks along the way.