'Deep' & 'Meaningful' - why are some people good with money?

Tustastic

Conrad, have you honestly spent much time reading the threads on the DFW board?
Time after time the DFWers mention they are starting to understand and deal with the underlying reasons for the way they have dealt with money and debt. Many also come right out and say that they behaved stupidly.
I'm not in debt myself but I come here every day to learn from the DFWers, marvel at their debt-busting and occasionally to post if I think I have a useful bit of advice or support to share.
And because IMHO this is the most informative, courteous, kind and honest board of all on MSE.
Your original post is not up to the standards set on DFW. Stop patronising and start listening. Please.

Tustastic

lieutenant_dan wrote: »

I've yet to meet a tight fisted person who could be said to have a generosity about them in other areas, tight with money = mean spirited in general.

I've found people with money problems to be far more generous in turn, and far more likely to help you out/loan you money they don't really have than those who have to dust the cobwebs off their wallets. Their generosity tends to be part of their downfall too, but I get far more sickened by people who hoard money than those who squander it, if we're going a bit deeper, because it says a lot about the underlying personality.

On first reading this Dan, I thought I disagreed with you. I always try to keep the cobwebs on my wallet intact;), but I don't think I'm mean. One example is that, along with others, for many years I helped financially support a relative living in poverty because of chronic illness. The relative's sibling, who has always had all the trappings of affluence, due to having a hardworking spouse and not through their own efforts, never contributed a penny and indeed frequently claimed that this relative was putting it on. But I think it's more about the fact that I had small regular sums put by that I could donate, whereas the other person wouldn't have had any money spare....because they had already spent it on themselves.
BTW, the chronically ill relative is still around thank goodness and slowly recovering with the love and support of family and friends. The chronically selfish sibling is still well off in money terms......but hardly anyone in the extended family bothers to keep in contact with them.
I'd rather be rich in people than rich in money.
And my wish has come true!:eek:

splishsplash

I've been lurking around these boards for a while now, and from what I've read (specifically debt diaries), it seems to me that that is exactly what a lbm is - it's the moment where someone 'gets' exactly why they've developed problems, using credit to fill the gaps, and not being able to sustain that over a period of time... the 'debt spiral'. I don't think any of the diaries that I've read have blamed everything on 'bad luck'. Most of those diaries record (very honestly) an impressive insight into their own problems, and with very few exceptions, they also record monumental efforts to address those problems. They refer often to 'pre-lbm' and recognise the changes that have evolved 'post-lbm'.

Why is one sibling better than another with money?
That's what I'd like to know too! I have two daughters, a little over a year apart in age, both are the complete opposite when it comes to money matters. Both have had the same experience in terms of what they've been given, told, shown etc, yet they are still completely different. I started a thread yesterday relating to these differences, and some of the answers I got showed me that others notice the same thing with their own children, and it seems to come down to inherent differences more than anything else.

'On balance we all have pretty much the same chance of bad luck, but (YOU WONT LIKE THIS BIT) some people 'create' more than thier share of bad luck, and often also consider thier luck is tougher than others.'
Hmm... I'm not sure how I feel about this statement... let me think for a sec...
I think it's a simplistic statement, and maybe not particularly well thought through.
People are different, they react to things differently, and that is part of life. When we encounter problems, we either deal with them or deny them, in every area - relationships, money, health, you name it.
How we deal with things is a complex and dynamic process, depending on many factors, and those factors will vary at different stages of our lives.
We feel either supported by others, and able to tackle problems head-on, or trapped and alone and desperate to come up with any stopgap solution.
We may be enabled (if not encouraged) by lending institutions to throw good money after bad, either because we are totally convinced that these dire times will improve, or because we see no alternatives (and no, I'm not blaming the lending institutions).
We still have to live our lives, send our children to school, feed and clothe ourselves and put a roof over our heads... and this is expensive business in today's world. It means that for most, there is very little 'wiggle-room', if things start to go wrong, it takes very little to start the 'bad luck' snowball rolling.
Jobs are no longer for life - redundancies happen every day, and people are encouraged to start their own businesses without any real 'sit down and scare the pants off you' advice. They may have unrealistic expectations about the income they can generate, or underestimate their overheads, they may have very realistic goals, work all the hours in a day, and things can still go wrong - the market can change, a new competitor can take the rug out from under them, 'bad luck' that they really cannot control, and like I said, no 'wiggle-room'.

'I meet clients who earn £14000 pa but have paid off a mortgage and have no debts.
I meet people who earn £250,000 pa but have £1m in debt and are right on the edge.'
I'm really curious - what percentage of those that you've met on £14,000 have a mortgage paid off and have no debt?

seven-day-weekend

There is a couple come to live here in our village who have come with a huge mortgage, live on borrowed money, a 'plan' to start a business but no business plan, no research of the business, no experience of the business....the list is endless.

IMHO they will fail miserably. (I hope not, but I think they will).

But this is not bad luck is it? It's lack of any sort of planning but having a dreamy 'oh I think I'll go to Spain and start a business' attitude.

Whether they would blame it on bad luck, I have no idea.

(I'm purely using this as ONE example of why people get into debt. I'm well aware there are all sorts of reasons. Our own debt was raked up due to the main salary halving due to illness.)

Gemmzie

I don't think it's as black and white as the OP makes it sound.

How many people think they are financially okay and then they or a partner can't work due to an accident or redundancy? Then suddenly it isn't so easy any more.

BFDPAUL

Conrad wrote: »

Ok, firstly this is'nt some kind of lecture, but I notice most of the chat on here is very much on the surface, it fails to really address the mechanics that lead to bad outcomes.

Well done Conrad, a proper discussion. Dont think you meant to come come across in such a negative manner but you,ve stirred up a hornets nest of opinions. I think most people now realise some of the root causes of their problems and with hindsite would maybe have done things in a different way/manner. But for most of us the damage is done and the most important thing is to deal with it in a possitive and constuctive way. As for some people being luckier in financial matters than others, thats a tough one. I for one feel lucky i have a pc, for without access to websites/forums and in general good advice which is priceless i for one would feel isolated and possibly unable to find a answer to my current situation. When you read about successful people in general, the one thing that is familiar in their journey,s is their ability to face adversity. To recognise where they went wrong and move onwards and upwards, and set the target and achieve it. Our journey,s are no less important and from what you read on these forums, people will and are facing their problems. Good luck all :T

bathgatebuyer

Everybody has the potential to be bad with money - unforseen circumstances can take even the most comfortable person into the horror that it debt and an inability to pay for the basics in life. We are always told that we should have 2 months wages aside to cover us, yet what happens if after redundancy you are out of work for a year? Redundancy, unemployment, illness, a death in the family, pregnancy.................all things which can take you from being comfortable to deeply in debt. Something experience has taught me.

I do think after being deeply in deep (and over £30K is deeply in debt!), I'm better placed to prepare for the future now more than ever before. Once my last £5K of debt disappears, the £505 I spend a month on repaying the debt (that accrued when my Dad was ill and I was a carer and not earning) will go straight into savings, perhaps into reducing my mortgage, etc. Who knows? But it certainly won't be frittered away in the way that I used to, on goodness nows what as I don't really have too much to show for it!

cat4772

Conrad

You notice most of the chat on here is very much on the surface, it fails to really address the mechanics that lead to bad outcomes

We are here for support and help not judgement

The chat is part of the MSE community. We indulge in 'surface' chat because it helps us feel that we are not alone, it lets us know that there are people out there who care about us and who are interested in our lives.

Most of us are in debt because life happens. I don't chat on MSE to be told at every opportunity that I've spent more than I've earnt, over-extended my finances or been fiscally stupid.

By working out our SOAs, planning our budgets, reading the problem debts article etc we are addressing the mechanics of why we are in debt and we join the forum to gain suppport to get rid of our debts and help each other.

Cat.x

Conrad

rog2 wrote: »

I am afraid that I don't really understand your implied definition of being 'Good with Money'.
The fact that somebody with a salary of £14k can manage a mortgage, whereas somebody on £250k may be teetering on the edge, has, often, little or nothing to do with 'how good they are with money'
I would suggest that most people try to 'plan' their financial future, and, whilst some are, indeed, fortunate enough to be able to stick to their plans, this is not the same for the majority of people.
The Financial Industry depends on everything being 'finite' and allows little, often no, flexibility for the unforeseen.
Perhaps the point for discussion should be 'Why is MONEY Good with some people and Bad with others?'

Ok, you've just given a classic demonstration of 'externalising' things that are in fact within YOURE control.

People who achieve good financial outcomes REGARDLESS OF INCOME LEVEL, are those that from an early age allow for lifes ups and downs.

This is'nt about critiscism, it's about understanding how one pattern of behavior leads to better outcomes than other behaviour patterns.

The same is true with raising kids. It took me a while to realise my kids are totaly a reflection of my input, end of.
Many people think thier kids are like they are, because, well thats just the way they are!
Its the same with money, your actions will lead to the outcomes you achieve, but it can be hard to change the older you get.

Conrad

fishface-69 wrote: »

some people genuinely are unlucky and some, like me, were just plain stupid! So there you go.

You are honest saying your lot is down to stupidity, but this is not the case for many I see.

Many will believe its all down to luck. If you go down that road, then life can become very hard and begin to feel pointless.

For those reading this that are just getting into financial difficulty for the first time, the point I think is to understand that more bad luck is around every crner, but by planning for it now you might stop yourself getting into a viscious circle.

Its this recognising we all have bad luck that is the important bit (thats not to say a few dont have it extra bad - for example a freind I know has Cerebral Paulsey but she has never got into debt)