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Boiler installation potential issues with neighbours HELP!
NWLondonWill
Posts: 7 Forumite
Hello everyone,
Our old boiler has been on its last legs for the past month, we still have heating but hot water is pretty non existent.
We have decided to replace it and had two boiler engineers come around for quotes.
It seems that condensate boilers are the standard and way to go now. However they need to be properly drained. We live in a first floor flat of a semi detached Edwardian house.
The boiler flue and small drain all stick outside on the detached side, where our wall backs onto a small alley. This is all fine, however with the new boiler, the engineer said he is going to have to fit a drainage pipe that connects to the boiler cuts across our wall goes around the corner of the house and connects to a drain onto the garden side at the back of our house.
Now to access my wall and the pipe in question, we need to use the alley. Since our boiler condensate pipe is about 5 meters from the ground he said we would need to get scaffolding.
The alley way is at the back of a bakery and some shops with flats above. I decided to contact the owners of the block for casual permission to put small scaffolding there for maybe a day max. Its quite a big local management company and after explaining I just needed to extended a pipe around our property they put me in touch with their "surveyor".
This is what the surveyor replied:
" It is difficult for me assess without some photos of your wall and that of xxx(owner of the block) together with a photo from the front elevation too.
Also, please could you confirm my fees for any time I spend will be covered by you – this will be £185/hr+VAT.
Scaffolding consent is normally carried out through a formal licence governing the works prepared by a lawyer. I appreciate that you say you will only need this for 2 days, but what reassurance is there to xxx that it will indeed be struck as soon as done?
Finally, no doubt xxx will want some form of compensation for the inconvenience,- please can you put forward your offer?"
Seriously?! So to go ahead, I have to pay some surveyor who knows how many hours of time and "compensation" to the owner for an alley way that is just used for rubbish storage.
Apologies for going on a bit of a rant, but hear me out. The owner of this building recently had works carried out on the flats above the shops, to which we can see the back of from our living room.
For 2 years, they had scaffolding up, the alley became a building site, dropping debris into my neighbours downstairs garden, followed by a rat infestation (yes dead rats ending up in their garden) as well as all the building noise and fun that comes with a loft extension and general complete refurb. Obviously my neighbours downstairs bore the brunt of it and ongoing complaints to the owners of the said block (and the alley way) for due compensation.
You can imagine their reaction when I fwd the email from the surveyor, the cheek of these people.
So, my question is there any way I can avoid ever dealing with these people? As well as the nuisance the financial aspect alone could easily add a few extra grand£ to my boiler installation.
Do I really need scaffolding? I understand there are certain health and safety regulations for working over 3.5 meters, but this is pretty light work. Ive seen some pretty high step ladders online, what are the options to quickly fit a drain pipe around the side of my flat?
Can i use the " The Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992" After all could it fall under "Clearance, repair or renewal of a drain, sewer, pipe or cable;"
TLDR: New boiler installation means getting drainage pipe outside our flat which may or may not require permission from neighbours who want to squeeze every penny they can out of us for using their alley to install it. Want to avoid them at all costs.
Any tips, suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks guys.
Our old boiler has been on its last legs for the past month, we still have heating but hot water is pretty non existent.
We have decided to replace it and had two boiler engineers come around for quotes.
It seems that condensate boilers are the standard and way to go now. However they need to be properly drained. We live in a first floor flat of a semi detached Edwardian house.
The boiler flue and small drain all stick outside on the detached side, where our wall backs onto a small alley. This is all fine, however with the new boiler, the engineer said he is going to have to fit a drainage pipe that connects to the boiler cuts across our wall goes around the corner of the house and connects to a drain onto the garden side at the back of our house.
Now to access my wall and the pipe in question, we need to use the alley. Since our boiler condensate pipe is about 5 meters from the ground he said we would need to get scaffolding.
The alley way is at the back of a bakery and some shops with flats above. I decided to contact the owners of the block for casual permission to put small scaffolding there for maybe a day max. Its quite a big local management company and after explaining I just needed to extended a pipe around our property they put me in touch with their "surveyor".
This is what the surveyor replied:
" It is difficult for me assess without some photos of your wall and that of xxx(owner of the block) together with a photo from the front elevation too.
Also, please could you confirm my fees for any time I spend will be covered by you – this will be £185/hr+VAT.
Scaffolding consent is normally carried out through a formal licence governing the works prepared by a lawyer. I appreciate that you say you will only need this for 2 days, but what reassurance is there to xxx that it will indeed be struck as soon as done?
Finally, no doubt xxx will want some form of compensation for the inconvenience,- please can you put forward your offer?"
Seriously?! So to go ahead, I have to pay some surveyor who knows how many hours of time and "compensation" to the owner for an alley way that is just used for rubbish storage.
Apologies for going on a bit of a rant, but hear me out. The owner of this building recently had works carried out on the flats above the shops, to which we can see the back of from our living room.
For 2 years, they had scaffolding up, the alley became a building site, dropping debris into my neighbours downstairs garden, followed by a rat infestation (yes dead rats ending up in their garden) as well as all the building noise and fun that comes with a loft extension and general complete refurb. Obviously my neighbours downstairs bore the brunt of it and ongoing complaints to the owners of the said block (and the alley way) for due compensation.
You can imagine their reaction when I fwd the email from the surveyor, the cheek of these people.
So, my question is there any way I can avoid ever dealing with these people? As well as the nuisance the financial aspect alone could easily add a few extra grand£ to my boiler installation.
Do I really need scaffolding? I understand there are certain health and safety regulations for working over 3.5 meters, but this is pretty light work. Ive seen some pretty high step ladders online, what are the options to quickly fit a drain pipe around the side of my flat?
Can i use the " The Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992" After all could it fall under "Clearance, repair or renewal of a drain, sewer, pipe or cable;"
TLDR: New boiler installation means getting drainage pipe outside our flat which may or may not require permission from neighbours who want to squeeze every penny they can out of us for using their alley to install it. Want to avoid them at all costs.
Any tips, suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks guys.
0
Comments
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Can it not be plumbed to a waste drain in your kitchen or bathroom? At 5m there is a good chance of it freezing and leaving you with no heathing if it’s external.0
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Why can't you drain the condensate internally within your flat? Or move the boiler to make use of an existing drainage connection? Surely that's a cheaper option for you?0
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If you live on the top floor of a converted house, unless the ground outside drops away significantly if the installer takes the pipe down to floor height it's not gonna be anywhere near 5 m, tell them to get their ladder outI'm only here while I wait for Corrie to start.
You get no BS from me & if I think you are wrong I WILL tell you.0 -
1. If required to work at height, can't they hire a cherry picker. Most work can be done from inside your flat. To install flue, pressure relief pipework and condensate, cherry picker could just turn up unannounced, the two hours work be completed and it disappears.
2. As suggested by ComicGeek, it should be possible to install the condesate pipe internally. A condensate pump can be used if necessary.
3. Some boilers (e.g. Vaillant's (but not rear flue models)) can have the flue installed entirely from inside. The pressure relief pipework can nearly always bed done from inside. Condensate as 2. above.
4. With 2. and 3. you don't even need a cherry picker.0 -
Hey guys,
thanks for all your replies. Very much appreciated.
So quick update, I was emailing one of the boiler engineers who came by for a quote and he says he was just going to use a tall step ladder. It's light work, that's a relief, I will tell the other guy who suggested scaffolding that it is in NO way an option due to the swindling sharks who own the block next door, and of course, I would hate to "inconvenience" them.
Cheers!0 -
Typhoon2000 wrote: »Can it not be plumbed to a waste drain in your kitchen or bathroom? At 5m there is a good chance of it freezing and leaving you with no heathing if it’s external.
Hi there,
yes this could have been an option, would mean tearing up our floor boards and routing the condensate pipe to the kitchen which is on the other side of the flat. I wanted to keep disruption in the house to a minimum since we have a 4 week old baby and my wife is at home most of the time! Don't think she would be happy about this.
Also I think it would probably mean using a pump to push the water through.0 -
southcoastrgi wrote: »If you live on the top floor of a converted house, unless the ground outside drops away significantly if the installer takes the pipe down to floor height it's not gonna be anywhere near 5 m, tell them to get their ladder out
Yep, exactly most likely be doing that! Thx0 -
nofoollikeold wrote: »1. If required to work at height, can't they hire a cherry picker. Most work can be done from inside your flat. To install flue, pressure relief pipework and condensate, cherry picker could just turn up unannounced, the two hours work be completed and it disappears.
2. As suggested by ComicGeek, it should be possible to install the condesate pipe internally. A condensate pump can be used if necessary.
3. Some boilers (e.g. Vaillant's (but not rear flue models)) can have the flue installed entirely from inside. The pressure relief pipework can nearly always bed done from inside. Condensate as 2. above.
4. With 2. and 3. you don't even need a cherry picker.
Indeed, thanks for the tips!0 -
Op do it internally Find the nearest soil stack and see if it's closer than the kitchen. Any waste will do, the bathroom also has options.
There is only a few that I had no other options with but usually you find a way. A lot of installers however take the easiest option and a lot of that time it's just to stick a hole in the wall under the boiler, job done, but not always done well.
In the long run internally is always better and worth a bit disruption for a day. The longer the external run the more likely it is to freeze and by God it's not a pretty sight seeing these long runs on outside walls.
Even 40mm pipe can freeze, I was at a couple about 2 or 3 years ago where I thought it wouldn't happen.0 -
https://www.wolseley.co.uk/heating/pumps/condensate-pumps/
i have a condensate pump on my boiler as its in the airing cupboard and is in tne middle of the house , this pumps in to the soil stackThats a good idea thanks muchly.. 😊0
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