Issue At Property Between Completion & Key Collection

Rosemary7391

Fairfield79 wrote: »

Also not sure how difficult it is to comprehend how a property with a window left wide open in mid winter might absorb more excess moisture versus a house with all openings sealed.

Actually houses don't seal, in my experience. Ventilation is important.



I routinely have my windows open during winter. Unless rain was getting in I'm not sure how it would be a huge problem. I suspect your problem might be something different... was the heating on? What do you mean "damp proofing" the two walls? Rising damp =/= condensation. You'll need to be really clear about what the damage is and how it occurred if you're to have any chance of getting it paid for.



Regardless I think it's very unlikely you'll win any sort of claim. The seller wouldn't have known to prepare the property for a long absence and even if they did, I'm not sure they'd be obliged to do so unless you had it written in the contract. If you were away for a couple more days you probably would've invalidated your insurance - think 30 days is the usual limit?

Comms69

Fairfield79 wrote: »

Thanks Comms69 you’re very wise and patronising.

I do find it funny how someone answering your question in the most basic possible form is patronising - I presume it's because I knew something you did not and therefore I'm a terrible person.


Best of luck in sorting your new home out.

TBagpuss

DaftyDuck wrote: »

I would be pretty certain the reverse is true, in almost all instances. An open window will allow the air to circulate, reduce condensation, reduce thermal gradients, decrease internal absolute humidity, and reduce mould spore concentration.

I don't believe the vendor or estate agent had any duty to seal the property prior to completion. Additionally, I would expect all the damage to have been done post completion, so would be your responsibility anyway.

I think this may be correct. I have a converted garage which the previous owners of my house used as a spare room. I have found that with the window closed (and no heating) mould and condensation quickly appear on the walls and ceiling. Leaving the window open a little and there are no issues (unless you count a slight increase in spiders)

Of course the window shouldn't have been left open, but it doesn't sound as though that's the situation

I think if rain had come in and damaged a carpet,it is possible that you might have had a claim (although possibly you would be considered to have some contributory responsibility as you chose not to check the property for nearly a month afterwards. And you might struggle to prove that the window had been left open before completion.

AlexMac

Rosemary (post #12) is spot on; both with her prediction that trying to take legal action against anyone would be fruitless, but also in terms of the diagnosis of the problem.

As there are only three causes of damp (1. rising, 2. condensation and 3. penetrating/leaks ), its probably worth delaying any attempt by Damp Proofing specialists to remedy the rising damp while you make sure that a faulty DPC really is the problem.

Unless you really want the messy stuff of 1. done before you move in, and can afford £600 wheter or not it's neede; then I assume you might want to get them in immediately. The standard solution is a bit dirty ( inject chemicals , strip back to the brick and re-render/re-plaster to at least a meter high internally, after obviously ensuring air bricks are clear to ventilate the sub-floor and that no earth is piled up against the outside walls to bridge the DPC if it has one)

But I'd try curing 2 first; brushing off the mineral salts, heating the room well so the walls warm up and ventilating for a few months. And obviously ensuring there are no splashy gutters or downpipes or internal leaks (3).

I can't see that cheap paint is a factor; I prefer cheap matt paint as it breathes, and as I've found to my cost that vinyl paint can blister off damp walls such as those in basements.

Good luck with the fix

DaftyDuck

The window was probably left open because of the serious damp issue. Had it been closed, and you hadn't turned up to check during that time, you'd probably have bracket fungi and mildew everywhere.

You could write and thank the seller....

AdrianC

Fairfield79 wrote: »

Completed a house sale on December 8th for a property in Manchester but was unable to physically collect the keys until January 5th owing to certain circumstances and spending Christmas with family in London.
Had viewed (unoccupied) property a week before completion and was happy it was in the same state since the survey.
When we entered property on Jan 5th we discovered someone had left a window open in the front lounge. All surfaces were noticeably damp and rising damp was visible on two walls. In addition whatever ever cheap chalk based paint previous owner used was now lifting off in powdery stains owing to absorbing moisture.

"Rising damp" does not come from a window being left open. How big a window are we talking about? A proper full-fat pane that will let a substantial amount of rain in? It's more of a surprise it didn't let a burglar or squatter in...
"Rising damp" doesn't exist, not least because of the damp-proof cause that should be there. What did your survey say? I bet, at most, it said "you should get a specialist, etc, high ground levels, etc, backside-covered, etc."

My expectation would be the previous owner or their estate agent had a duty to secure the property before handing over the keys

Nope. You left your house unoccupied, unchecked and unsecured from Dec 8th onwards. Nobody else was responsible from the moment of completion.

but does the fact there was a month long delay put that responsibility on me?

Absolutely! Your house on Dec 8th, your problem on Dec 8th.

Damp proofing the two walls will probably cost about £600

If the moisture is from the window, the walls do not need damp-proofing. The window needs shutting during extended periods of rain. No more than that.

If the moisture is not from the open window, then the question comes back to your survey.

Do I have a leg to stand on in recouping cost owing to previous owner / estate agent carelessness?

Nope.

Davesnave

Fairfield79 wrote: »

Also not sure how difficult it is to comprehend how a property with a window left wide open in mid winter might absorb more excess moisture versus a house with all openings sealed.

It's very difficult for me. Our barn has openings that allow air through, but not rain. This is because sweaty animals used to live in it.

Oddly enough, although it's unheated and it doesn't have a visible DPC, no paint has fallen off the walls. Even the magazines I store in there are fine right now.


Think you need to reconsider your answer above.

ACG

If the property was sound when you completed I cant see how anything beyond that point is their responsibility.
Yes they should have closed the window, but you should have gone to check on it. How can you leave a house without heating for a month in December?

You would need to prove their actions and not yours (or lack of) have caused the damage and I think they could quite easily come back and argue you are at least in part responsible. They may have left the window open because there was a lot of dust from all the moving and so they were being nice as they would not expect someone to leave it unchecked for such a long period of time.

You could go to court but at best your odds of winning are probably 50/50.

BikingBud

Well I suppose the previous owners could have locked it all up and left the heating on at a constant 25 deg C and it might be warm and cosy but would you then complain about the energy bill?

davidmcn

ACG wrote: »

You could go to court but at best your odds of winning are probably 50/50.

I can't see on what basis they'd have any sort of claim, even if they can prove that the window was open at completion and that deterioration has been caused by that. Like I said above, there's (almost certainly) nothing in the contract obliging the sellers to leave the windows closed or open.