For those who think we had it easy...

115K

When I went to uni I had a student grant so I left uni with little debt and when I was looking in London to buy a flat with my partner about 8 years ago we could get a 2 bed flat for £80,000 which was not stretching our combined wages at all.

My brother (8 years younger) left uni without the aid of a grant and instead had a £14,000 debt and the same 2 bed flat is about £200,000 now.

I think that it is ridiculous to generalise about the current FTB generation as lazy shirkers who fritter their money away.

Gorgeous_George

Everybody wants to go Uni these days. Many learn rubbish. Few actually do courses that help the country. It is right that they should fund their own way to a degree in sociology or whatever. We must have the best educated dole queue in the world!

Kids get pregnant and claim their state benefits and a free house. It wasn't like that 30 years ago. Unemployed idiots go around fathering little !!!!!!!s like it's some kind of macho ritual. Brothers and sisters with different dads is the norm.

As for interest rates, yes I remember paying 16.5%. However, I got MIRAS and only really paid 11% - not so far from some of today's SVRs.

My house cost me £24K or about twice our joint income. If house prices had halved we would have lost about a year's salary. Today, if a £200K house falls by 50% recent buyers may lose 4 times their salary. The risks are much, much higher today.

We can all rant.


GG

ooh!, bar stewards was censored

115K

Well, I don't see why I should have got a free education and my brother didn't and the point I was making is that is it far harder for him 8 years on.

I didn't make any sacrifices or save up a lot to get my first home (quite the opposite, that's why I'm on this site.:p)

Gorgeous_George

You are right of course. You should not have got a free education.

Society can pay for 'educating' people or can pay benefits to those who choose not to work. Very difficult to do both.

GG

davethetaller

CYBERCIDERSAVER wrote: »

Yeah but you could get a lady of ill repute and still have change from a fiver in 1982! Oh Thatcher was great wasn't she????:eek:

So that is what she did in her spare time?!!!;)

franklee

BrandNewDay wrote: »

We were renting a three-bedroom with a huge garden and a gorgeous view of Loch Fyne and a 20 minute commute to my husband's job. We have bought a two-bedroom mid-terrace ex-council house in a cruddy estate, and my husband now has a one hour commute.

Which illustrates another side effect of high house prices, trebling your husbands commute, as has happened for many, wasting precious fuel, polluting the environment and causing traffic delays.

BrandNewDay wrote: »

To OUR thinking, paying rent for a view was living beyond our means. We can't afford that house. We needed to be realistic about who we were and what we could afford.

Well I hope it works out for you but looking at the figures round here the rental is the better deal financially. Ex-council houses on cruddy estates are going to be extremely vulnerable to price falls. I fear this was a bad decision and cannot see the rationality of wanting to buy at all costs.

In the 70's borrowing up to the hilt and starving for two years to buy a house was sensible as there was high inflation. So long as the buyer could hold on by their fingertips for a relatively short time then wage inflation would bail them out of the debt and things got easier.

Today we have low wage inflation so the debt is going to hurt for many years. It seems people have little understating of inflation or economic cycles. It isn't a case of it was harder to buy in the past but that it goes in cycles so it was sometimes harder to buy, then got easier, then got harder again several times over.

The 70's had two peaks and troughs in real house prices but it was all masked by inflation.

I see very little to dispute that house prices are now at record highs on every scale. Without high inflation nominal falls are a possibility and they are going to hurt.

IMHO. YMMV.

wifeforlife

Poppy9 wrote: »

The demand is driven by buyers, buyers who want it now and don't care what it costs. A house is only worth what someone will pay and we have raised a generation who don't care what it costs, they want it.

What like all the greedy people who got it lucky in the 80's and 90's and have bought up all the starter homes that ftb's should be intially starting to look at and purchase, instead having to look at the more expensive 'next step' homes

House prices will only fall when people stop buying. Perhaps we need a national campaign to of "just say no to house buying" to stop demand and the market will self correct.

Maybe we need a national campaign, to stop people owning more than 2 homes so I can manage to pay the £400 per month in rent towards a mortgage instead. So the above mentioned cant buy up all the starter and first home stock. I'm sick to death of older colleagues in work patronising me and stating how I pay more than they do in mortgage payments more often that not, more than double. I wish they would try and get a mortgage, sickners

Generally young people have little respect and little self discipline.

I most certainly dont swear and I know how to behave appropriately, infact being commended by a member of the public for my 4 yr old daughters manners (I'm 25 and my dd is 4yrs old) She held a door for an elderly lady without having to be asked. Her teacher cannot believe what a well mannered and respectful child she is. I work with people of all ages and have never had a problem with self control/discipline.


If someone can find me a mortgage for a normal 2up 2down/flat in BT62/63 I'd be grateful.

Earnings £511 per month after tax & NI
WFTC & CTC £105 per week
Child Benefit £17.50 per week

Outgoings Rent £400
Childcare £125 per week
Groceries/Elec/Oil as and when I can afford it

Oh and I dont qualify for a Council property even if they had them, because I go to work

Please dont generalise and put all ftb's or young people in the same category. We dont all want it right now, we dont all have cars, holidays, and nights out.

I just want a property that I can call my own, that I can say to my dd 'this is our home' I just want to be given the same chances and opportunities that others had. To be told I'm lazy, I'm getting it easy, and to save harder is all fair and well but until you walk in others shoes dont judge and make assumptions.

My parents where very lucky with housing and sacraficed aswell in the 80's and 90's but even they have said they could not do it now, and have to come to accept as I have that I will never be a home owner

Thanks
Cate

115K

My Dad got a mortgage for a large, 3-bed house in London in 1983 for a £50,000 mortgage and he got that on one salary of about £20,000.

He was not hard working, he didn't have a big hard earned cash deposit but now that property is worth around £350,000 and he owns a flat in another part of London that is worth over £500,000.

I have spent quite a lot of my income on going out, eating out etc but I still am a home owner due to the property prices at the time I bought.

I just think a lot of the financial security of homeowners is due to the particular climate in which they bought, it is nothing to do with self sacrifice or hard work.

Poppy9

seraphina wrote: »

People on under £20 000 a year aren't buying flat screen tellies and iPods all the time - and no matter how many cutbacks you make, if house prices are rising £20 000 per annum, if you're on a salary of £20 000 a year, there is *no way* you are ever going to be able to come up with a decent sized deposit. You can't cut back what's already pared to the bone...

Nephew 1 (age 23), 2 years out of uni. Decided to move back home to live with parents. Has a job paying £17k pa plus bonuses. In two years he has bought a VW van which has had a trendy, professional paint job and a refit inside (he's a surfer). He has bought himself the usual new mobiles, SATNAV, laptop, flatscreen TV. He holidays 3 or 4 times a year abroad and has frequent trips around the country surfing. He pays no keep to his parents so all his income is disposible. He has no student debt as his parents paid his rent and gave him money to live off while in Uni. He also worked in Uni holidays. He is not a lazy lad. He choose only to save for what he wants i.e. his van! He could be saving money for a house deposit. Nephew 2 (also age 23). He didn't go to Uni but trained as an electrician (training due to complete in Feb 2008). He earns £16k pa and his GF earns £15k. He has rented his own place for the past 4 years and is now looking to buy. He and his GF have saved a deposit for a house and are looking at houses costing £100k (2 bed terraced needing work). They share a car (P reg Astra) and have one holiday abroad a year with the odd cheap weekends. He doesn't have a posh telly, he has his parents old one. He doesn't have a lap top or SATNAV or trendy mobiles.

It is hard to get onto the property ladder, it always has been and always will be. It isn't a right though and never has been. If you want something you have to work for it and choose your priorities.

Poppy9

cathy2702 wrote: »

What like all the greedy people who got it lucky in the 80's and 90's and have bought up all the starter homes that ftb's should be intially starting to look at and purchase, instead having to look at the more expensive 'next step' homes

There have always been second home owner who rent out. I bought in the 80's and I don't own a second home. I only know of one person (from my family, friends and work colleagues) who own a 2nd (and 3rd and 4th home) as this is their business - student lets.

cathy2702 wrote:

Maybe we need a national campaign, to stop people owning more than 2 homes so I can manage to pay the £400 per month in rent towards a mortgage instead. So the above mentioned cant buy up all the starter and first home stock. I'm sick to death of older colleagues in work patronising me and stating how I pay more than they do in mortgage payments more often that not, more than double. I wish they would try and get a mortgage, sickners

older people further down the line in life will always comment on how much better off they are than those starting off. You will be doing it in years to come. When your work colleagues are having their first babies at 35= you will telling them how by the time you are 40 your DD will be out of uni and your earnings/life will be your own, while the 35 year mums will still be paying to get their children through uni in retirement!

Cathy2702 wrote:

I most certainly dont swear and I know how to behave appropriately, infact being commended by a member of the public for my 4 yr old daughters manners (I'm 25 and my dd is 4yrs old) She held a door for an elderly lady without having to be asked. Her teacher cannot believe what a well mannered and respectful child she is.

such an exception that people comment and the teacher finds it hard to believe! 20 years ago this behaviour was expected and not commented on.

Cathy2702 wrote:

If someone can find me a mortgage for a normal 2up 2down/flat in BT62/63 I'd be grateful.

Earnings £511 per month after tax & NI
WFTC & CTC £105 per week
Child Benefit £17.50 per week

Outgoings Rent £400
Childcare £125 per week
Groceries/Elec/Oil as and when I can afford it

Even 20 years ago a single mother would not been able to afford to buy her own home even if WFTC & CTC had been available to her. 20 years ago a single parent taking home £511 per month after tax would have either had to live at home with parents/share a property with another person, get maintenance from the child's father or live on benefits as there was nothing to top up the income.