Not Dead Yet!!

Sea_Shell

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

That's a bit scary ...

It sounds as if you're in the fortunate position that you and your wife are the sole beneficiaries of your mother's will - you say you don't know who might accuse you of manipulation, which suggests there are no other loving relatives on the scene or likely to crawl out of the woodwork.

But if you have LPA, then you really SHOULD be better informed about the extent of your POWER.

You have the power to act on behalf of your mother, but that power can only be used FOR HER BENEFIT. There are exceptions for 'customary gifts' - so if your mum used to give you or others birthday and Christmas gifts, you can continue to buy these ON HER BEHALF and in her name, even when she is no longer capable of doing so and has no idea who you are (I hope it never comes to that, but it might).

I can see the argument for buying £20K of premium bonds in her name might have some benefit to her, but not gifting that amount to you / your wife.

Please find out more about your responsibilities ... there's a very basic introduction here.

Can customary gifts continue at the level they were prior to PoA, if a history of such can be evidenced? Even if for fairly substantial amounts. (IHT and DoA issues aside)

troubleinparadise

Sea_Shell wrote: »

Can customary gifts continue at the level they were prior to PoA, if a history of such can be evidenced? Even if for fairly substantial amounts. (IHT and DoA issues aside)

This question arises frequently on the Alzheimer’s Society forum, and from what I have read there I understand it would be viewed as acceptable by the OPG, but would be dependent upon the amount of assets still held by the donor. A millionaire versus a person with £5k for instance.

The issue of using the attorneyship in the best interests of the donor seems to be the crux of the matter - is gifting in their best interests, or those of the receiver? (IHT and DOA issues aside)

The question is more often posted when DOA is at the heart of the matter, rather than whether £20 Birthday gifts for the grandchildren should continue or not.

Sea_Shell

That makes sense thank you? If they are "rich" enough to continue to gift as they had done, without it having any impact on their assets (eg gifts from pension income/investments growth)

However, surely a gift of any amount is always going to be in the best interests of the receiver, how can it ever not be. That's how gifts work!! Regardless of being £5 or £5000?

Tom99

You would like to keep your mum living with you as long as possible and as things get more difficult for her there are various home help options.
£30k is not a lot of money in terms of the amount of home help 'care' it will buy so I would make sure that money was set aside and available for that purpose.

Malthusian

Sea_Shell wrote: »

That makes sense thank you? If they are "rich" enough to continue to gift as they had done, without it having any impact on their assets (eg gifts from pension income/investments growth)

This is sounding like a textbook example of when gifts would be permitted, however: how large are the total gifts per year? If they are larger than the IHT exempt amounts then you will need Court of Protection approval (according to this article).

Did the donor explicitly authorise these gifts in the LPoA document?

However, surely a gift of any amount is always going to be in the best interests of the receiver, how can it ever not be. That's how gifts work!!

No, they're in the best interests of the giver, thanks to empathy. Did your mother or your vicar never tell you that "'tis better to give than to receive"?

*edit* This is why, although there is an obvious need to prevent attorneys from using the PoA to give all the donor's money away, the law on POAs doesn't insist that when someone loses capacity, the attorneys immediately stop all gifts and hoard all the donor's money for the donor. The first duty of the attorney is to manage the donor's finances in their own interest, however there is also a duty to manage the donor's finances as they themselves would if they still had capacity, as far as is practical. This includes making customary gifts.

getmore4less

"Best interest" is not what many people think it is.

The mental capacity act code of practice gives a good overview of the law and how it should be implemented by those that are covered by it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mental-capacity-act-code-of-practice

This is a must read for any EPA/LPA holders, carers, family and others that look after those that lack mental capacity.


Plenty of other supplementary info to help guide people.

iang319

An interesting discussion. Though it seems to be focussed around the POA which I only mentioned in my OP for information. My Mum could do this in her own right. She's not that bad yet!!


However I have thanked her but explained that her money is best left where it is because it gets complicated and that her good wishes could in fact make things more difficult for us.

74jax

My dad was desperate to gift money to my brother and I before he died as it would pass to mum and be eaten up in care. He really didn't want that to happen and he lay in bed with days to live with a solicitor and doctor signing over whatever he could to us. Once he had he was at peace and died a few days later. I sware he was hanging on until the cheques were cleared (I even think I had posts about it on here at the time, it was horrendous). But we took the cheques and backed them and he was happy. Could you perhaps take the gift so to ease her mind, but keep it to one side and use for her care when needed. It may make her feel better. Put it in an account, don't ever use it other than for when the times comes. Dad gifted my brother and I much much more but we cashed it and did just that, we used it on mum as she needed the care and really it was never seen as our money.

At 90 I think she will be worrying more than you know and by taking it but using it when the times comes would help her.

iang319

"At 90 I think she will be worrying more than you know and by taking it but using it when the times comes would help her."


Mum seems to have accepted it. Wife is adamant that we don't touch it, so that's the way it will be.
Thanks for the suggestion though.

Robert_McGeddon

I wonder, is your Mum making a contribution towards the care/accommodation you are providing? My non-expert thought is that such payments would not constitute a deprivation of assets if reasonable. Could be backdated. Would need to take into account the capital input for the granny flat but with care home costs as a benchmark . . .
I'd like to see the thoughts of the forum regulars.