Endowment mis-Selling (1990) with Legal & General Query

Want2BeDebtFree

Hi guys.
I finally need a bit of help on this one, after months and months of to'ing and fro'ing between the Financial Ombudsman, and Legal & General.

Long story short. We (2 gay guys) bought a house in 1990 with an "Endowment Policy" (as was common back then) . The policy was for 23 years. It should have matured in 2013, (and we have it in writing that that is the "Maturity Date"). However it didn't! We are still paying it to this day! We are currently fighting them regarding this. No problem!

What I need to address on this thread is this! On one of the Microphiche'd forms (from 1990) that Legal & General have found (and sent me a copy of) is a signed statement by myself denying that I am gay! I would NOT have got the mortgage if I had ticked "Yes" -- It says "Have you ever belonged to any of these AIDS high risk groups?" and then goes on to list 4 groups:
1, Homosexual Men,
2, Bisexual Men,
3, Haemophiliacs
4, Intravenous Drug Users.
I have ticked NO for all four, even though myself and my partner are obviously gay. I am wondering if this might pose a problem; (that I lied back in 1990?) in order to get the mortgage? What if they turn round and say that "Because you lied, your claim is null and void!" or something similar? They are assuming that EVERYONE in these four brackets is going to get AIDS, which is TERRIBLY JUDGEMENTAL and NON PC!

I am currently trying to claim compensation for mis-selling of the endowment policy, are they likely to bring up this subject?

Legal and General lied to us! They said it would all be paid off in 2013, and it was not!

Thrugelmir

Want2BeDebtFree wrote: »

I have ticked NO for all four, even though myself and my partner are obviously gay. I am wondering if this might pose a problem; (that I lied back in 1990?) in order to get the mortgage? What if they turn round and say that "Because you lied, your claim is null and void!" or something similar? They are assuming that EVERYONE in these four brackets is going to get AIDS, which is TERRIBLY JUDGEMENTAL and NON PC!

Nothing judgemental. As with any potential medical condition this impacted the risk to the assurer. You weren't mis-sold. You applied and lied. English contractual law has been around for many centuries. Unfortunately you cannot say that it doesn't to me because I don't want it too. Death from Aids in the 90's was still on the increase.

davidmcn

The question related purely to the life cover - it's irrelevant unless there was a claim after one of you dies (and even then, I can't see it being relevant unless Aids was the cause of death). Insurers stopped asking this stuff a long time ago.

Nearlyold

As above that question would only ever have been related to the Life Cover/Critical Illness/ Waiver of Premium elements of the Endowment policy (you may not have all elements). At the time those questions were fairly standard. Since 2005 following an ABI working group insurers now only ask along the lines of "are you at risk of HIV" and give examples of who might be at risk (being Gay is not included in the list of those who might be at risk).


The mortgage application is not the endowment application they are /were two seperate things.

With regard to the term - what do the Policy Docs say the term of the policy is and who actually sold the endowment to you.

comeandgo

You can stop paying an endowment policy any time you like. Just make sure you have other life cover and if you are on an interest only mortgage some other repayment vehicle.

dunstonh

I have ticked NO for all four, even though myself and my partner are obviously gay. I am wondering if this might pose a problem; (that I lied back in 1990?) in order to get the mortgage? What if they turn round and say that "Because you lied, your claim is null and void!" or something similar? They are assuming that EVERYONE in these four brackets is going to get AIDS, which is TERRIBLY JUDGEMENTAL and NON PC!

Come off it. You remember the 80s and early 90s surely. AIDS was a major concern. You could have an advert break without seeing an AIDS advert. Insurers at that time were paranoid about AIDS and any group that was a high risk.

They are not assuming anything of the sort. They are just assessing risks based on the situation at that time.

I am currently trying to claim compensation for mis-selling of the endowment policy, are they likely to bring up this subject?

Not unless you raise it.

Legal and General lied to us! They said it would all be paid off in 2013, and it was not!

This should be a pretty easy complaint to resolve. The term of the policy is on the initial quote issued at point of sale. It would also be supplied again with the cancellation rights. And again with the policy documents. If sold under advice (which you appear to claim it was) there would also be a reason why letter and factfind confirming the term of the policy. Then you have annual statements that show the maturity date. So, quite a lot of documentation showing maturity dates.

Want2BeDebtFree

Hi guys, thanks for your input.

[User: Comeandgo -- thanks so much, however I switched to a repayment mortgage years ago].

So yes, I have documentation in writing, saying that the maturity date for the Endowment Policy was 2013, and that is the ONLY issue that I wish resolving from the Financial Ombudsman.


The fact that I said I was not gay (in order to get the endowment policy) is just a "side issue" here -- and I only became aware of the documentation (which I had signed) when Legal & General sent me a stack of photocopied microphiched documents pertaining to this 1990 sale, and I thought "Oh yeah I remember that!" Then I got a nasty feeling that maybe they will hold this against me! And that once again I am going to have to lie and pretend not to be gay STILL in 2019, which seems a bit ridiculous in this day and age! (And no I don't have HIV or Aids and never will do).

User -- Nearlyold yes I am aware that the Endowment Policy and the Mortgage Application are two separate things. The Mortgage Application was NOT with Legal And General - it was with another large well known company. In fact another thing to tell you is that Legal & General have tried to fob me off by saying that the "Mortgage" was with this other well known company and is "nothing to do with them"! Well, yes I know that -- I don't think they have read my letter properly because its the ENDOWMENT POLICY I am claiming for! But anyhow the Financial Ombudsman said they would reject my claim initially. The individual who sold us the Endowment Policy worked for Legal And General, and I still have the 1990 original signed letters from this person on letter headed paper. This person also put down in writing that the Endowment Policy would mature in 2013. It never did. And that is the issue at hand here. It is only that I happened to FIND all of the original (1990) SIGNED documentation in my garage this summer that I have been able to get the ball rolling on a mis-selling claim, and have gotten the Financial Ombudsman to take me on as per Extenuated Circumstances (as I have tried to claim in the past for this but was put on a "waste-of-time" Merry-Go-Round that would take take ages to explain). Plus i did NOT have the written proof back then.

Now I have it in writing that the "Date of Maturity is 2013"

Anyway -- getting back to point in hand! Is this "new" document (about being gay/HIV) going to jeopardise my case? Is it relevant to the case?

The BIG question? Shall I forward it on to the Financial Ombudsman (along with all the other stuff) or not?

k3lvc

Want2BeDebtFree wrote: »

Now I have it in writing that the Date of Maturity is 2013

I'm not understanding then - what do L&G say when you place this in front of them ?

What does your latest statement show ?
What alternative maturity date are they showing ?
How have you been paying your mortgage in the meantime - interest only ? If so how/when are you planning to pay off the balance ?

Want2BeDebtFree

Quote: I'm not understanding then - what do L&G say when you place this in front of them ? They say the mortgage was with this other well-known High Street company. Yes true! But the ENDOWMENT POLICY (which is what I am claiming) was with THEM! (Legal & General) Their letter is deliberately ambiguous and turns me down. They must KNOW the ENDOWMENT POLICY was with them because they admit to it, and they admit the person who sold it to me as a Legal And General EMPLOYEE in 1990. I have that in writing from them. I think they thing I'm stupid and that I don't know the different between an Endowment Policy, and a Mortgage Application. They are actually saying to me "Oh no - your mortgage was with "Blah blah blah" so your claim is with them!!"

I am NOT claiming for the mortgage... I am claiming for the mis-selling of the ENDOWMENT POLICY with Legal and General.


Quote: What does your latest statement show ? It will not be paid off till 2022.

Quote: What alternative maturity date are they showing ? 2022

Quote: How have you been paying your mortgage in the meantime - interest only ? If so how/when are you planning to pay off the balance ? When the 2013 maturity date did not transpire, I had to go out and get a repayment mortgage with a different company to cover the shortfall. Had I gotten a REPAYMENT mortgage initially in 1990, ALL of this would be paid off now! I was misinformed -- we did not have the internet at our disposal back then so we just believed what we were told by these so called experts

k3lvc

This makes even less sense - I'm sure dunstonh can add some light but in 1990 if you'd taken out an endowment mortgage the endowment element wouldn't have been set to end either

a) significantly beyond the mortgage term

b) on a random date 32yrs in the future


What was the original mortgage term ?

Want2BeDebtFree

k3lvc wrote: »

This makes even less sense - I'm sure dunstonh can add some light but in 1990 if you'd taken out an endowment mortgage the endowment element wouldn't have been set to end either

a) significantly beyond the mortgage term

b) on a random date 32yrs in the future


What was the original mortgage term ?

Because in 2013 when the Endowment Policy ended / matured, it DID NOT give us enough money (as they promised it would to pay off the mortgage) -- so we had to take out a TOTALLY DIFFERENT REPAYMENT plan to PAY OFF THEIR SHORTFALL!

Do you get it now??? We were told in 1990 it would ALL be paid off in 2013! However I am STILL PAYING IT NOW as it failed to pay off my mortgage in 2013. They invested the money unwisely I guess?? (Who knows??? That's Legal & General's business - not mine) I want it paid off as PROMISED! And now I have [finally found] the ORIGINAL paperwork!