Can you sell fund in one S&S ISA and buy it on same day in other S&S ISA?

masonic

danm wrote: »

By law, I think the OP is referring to the current tax regulation around ISAs.


My understanding is if the ISA being sold from was opened in this tax year, then they would not be able to do this as they would be funding another ISA. (similarly if they have used this years allowance elsewhere)


if from a prior tax year, then possible but unless they plan to reinvest the proceeds from the sale into other investment on the same platform (I am assuming not as they are moving to avoid charges) - then at withdrawal they will lose the tax wrapper.


Per my post above, the OP should consider whether they should Buy/Sell or instigate a transfer.

If you hold more than one S&S ISA and need to rebalance your portfolio, this situation is likely to come up and it can be costly to solve it via re-registration of investments or a cash ISA transfer. It is normally best to deal with it using the cash balances of the respective ISAs.

The OP stated "If I put the orders through at the same time I think I should be able to buy and sell the fund at the same price, so won't be out of the market." Clearly, unless there is sufficient uninvested cash in the destination ISA, this is impossible.

The ISA rules that could ostensibly make it look dodgy are the ones around not being allowed to trade with yourself.
"6(3) Investments, or rights in respect of investments, may not at any time... (b) be purchased from— (i) an account investor, or (ii) the spouse of an account investor, so as to become account investments under an account to which the account investor subscribes or has subscribed"
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1870/regulation/6/made

However, orders that are placed through the market would not be considered such, even in the unlikely event you were the only person placing orders on that day.

danm

masonic wrote: »

If you hold more than one S&S ISA and need to rebalance your portfolio, this situation is likely to come up and it can be costly to solve it via re-registration of investments or a cash ISA transfer. It is normally best to deal with it using the cash balances of the respective ISAs.

The OP stated "If I put the orders through at the same time I think I should be able to buy and sell the fund at the same price, so won't be out of the market." Clearly, unless there is sufficient uninvested cash in the destination ISA, this is impossible.

The ISA rules that could ostensibly make it look dodgy are the ones around not being allowed to trade with yourself.
"6(3) Investments, or rights in respect of investments, may not at any time... (b) be purchased from— (i) an account investor, or (ii) the spouse of an account investor"

However, orders that are placed through the market would not be considered such, even in the unlikely event you were the only person placing orders on that day.

Agree with the above - nothing to prevent Buying and Selling if crossing in the market- but some broader principles I was trying to flag just in case they were not obvious -unless the OP plans to reinvest or transfer (as an ISA) the proceeds from the SELLS, I think those funds will lose their ISA status if simply withdrawn from the platform?


Similarly if they already opened another ISA this year I don't think they can do this as they will effectively be funding a second ISA (to enter into the BUYS)

masonic

danm wrote: »

Agree with the above - nothing to prevent Buying and Selling if crossing in the market- but some broader principles I was trying to flag just in case they were not obvious -unless the OP plans to reinvest or transfer (as an ISA) the proceeds from the SELLS, I think those funds will lose their ISA status if simply withdrawn from the platform?

Similarly if they already opened another ISA this year I don't think they can do this as they will effectively be funding a second ISA (to enter into the BUYS)

You are correct that self-transfer of ISA subscriptions is completely prohibited for S&S ISAs and any money paid in by this mechanism would be deducted from the annual allowance and would be rejected over this amount.

On the second point, we do not know if the first S&S ISA was subscribed to in the current tax year. If it was, then subscriptions to the second S&S ISA would be invalid even before considering the OP's planned synchronised sale and purchase.

Audaxer

Thanks all. The multi asset fund I am selling was invested last tax year in an S&S ISA in the percentage charging platform last year. I am planning to sell it to invest the proceeds into funds in my income portfolio in the same S&S ISA. As I have not used any of this years ISA allowance, I plan to re-purchase the multi asset fund in my other S&S ISA in the fixed fee platform.

Your responses have confirmed to me that there is no problem in doing that. There is nothing for me to gain price-wise as hopefully they will go through at the same price as there is only the one buy and sell price - I'm just effectively moving the fund to a different S&S ISA.

londoninvestor

danm wrote: »

By law, I think the OP is referring to the current tax regulation around ISAs.

I'd actually wondered if Audaxer was thinking of Market Abuse regulations, which would forbid you to buy and sell a share simultaneously in different accounts if you had manipulative intent, such as inflating the reported trading volume in the market. (FCA handbook - note the reference to wash trades)

Obviously there's no manipulative intent here, but if you were doing this with some thinly traded AIM share and the size of your trades was significant compared to normal market volumes, you might not enjoy answering questions about what you were doing.

Not an issue with funds though, since there's no secondary market for you to distort!