Really need some advice please

JoannaA_2

vultura wrote: »

The NHS assessment is due shortly, as I understand it. When assessed in May 2008 the joint care package was stated as Level 2. The nursing component set at up to £178 per week for 12 months, to be reviewed again after 12 months. Her needs have not changed in that time.

As it stands father does not have a will, which I know he should have, but its not an easy subject to raise with anyone.

Care home fees are a very confusing subject: Your Mum seems to have a joint care package, but it may be that she should be fully funded by NHS. If you haven't seen it ask to see a full copy of the assessment and it may be worth appealing it as then she would not have to pay towards her care. However I am still not sure how the arrears of care have built up? I think you need to take all the paperwork regarding it and see someone regardig it as if it is properly owed then it takes precedence over the credit card and other debts I'm afraid because your mum still needs that care.
Re the will, I think an apocrophal story regarding a "friend" in a similar situation, which resulted in all the money being used for Nursing Home fees, may be the way to bring it up.Or take him for advice re a Lasting Power of attorney for himself( as he should have one in case- you were lucky your Mum was still able to do one) and whoever sees him may well bring up the will. I know it is more difficult to bring it up yourself.- Good Luck
It's Willaid in November, remember!

vultura

JoannaA wrote: »

Care home fees are a very confusing subject: Your Mum seems to have a joint care package, but it may be that she should be fully funded by NHS. If you haven't seen it ask to see a full copy of the assessment and it may be worth appealing it as then she would not have to pay towards her care. However I am still not sure how the arrears of care have built up? I think you need to take all the paperwork regarding it and see someone regardig it as if it is properly owed then it takes precedence over the credit card and other debts I'm afraid because your mum still needs that care.
Re the will, I think an apocrophal story regarding a "friend" in a similar situation, which resulted in all the money being used for Nursing Home fees, may be the way to bring it up.Or take him for advice re a Lasting Power of attorney for himself( as he should have one in case- you were lucky your Mum was still able to do one) and whoever sees him may well bring up the will. I know it is more difficult to bring it up yourself.- Good Luck
It's Willaid in November, remember!

Thanks JoannaA.

Have spoken to a nice fellow in local Age Concern, who spent 20 years with CAB and said he had never come across such a complicated case as this. Sadly though they don't have sessions with local solicitors. Good news is they do have a will writing service in another town within 30 mins drive and I have spoken to Dad about he. He understands that it may cause issues and feels he does need one, just needs the time to think about his wishes.

The Age Concern counsellor like you said to get copies of original paperwork from the home, which arrived today. They also sent an statement for account which now stands at £8,318.40 which they would like paying within the next 30 days, after which it will be handed to their solicitors. There was no copy of the original assessment, financial or otherwise though, just a copy letter from the PCT which I already had.

The arrears have built up as payment arrangements have never been made with the home and due to their own finance person being ill last year have only just noticed the payments not being made when they reached the end of financial year. I cannot understand how they can run a business like that. Of course the state and private pensions have continued to be paid into Mums current account and have been going back out again (plus more besides) via direct debit as minimum payments each month for the credit card debts.

JoannaA_2

vultura wrote: »

Thanks JoannaA.

Have spoken to a nice fellow in local Age Concern, who spent 20 years with CAB and said he had never come across such a complicated case as this. Sadly though they don't have sessions with local solicitors. Good news is they do have a will writing service in another town within 30 mins drive and I have spoken to Dad about he. He understands that it may cause issues and feels he does need one, just needs the time to think about his wishes.

The Age Concern counsellor like you said to get copies of original paperwork from the home, which arrived today. They also sent an statement for account which now stands at £8,318.40 which they would like paying within the next 30 days, after which it will be handed to their solicitors. There was no copy of the original assessment, financial or otherwise though, just a copy letter from the PCT which I already had.

The arrears have built up as payment arrangements have never been made with the home and due to their own finance person being ill last year have only just noticed the payments not being made when they reached the end of financial year. I cannot understand how they can run a business like that. Of course the state and private pensions have continued to be paid into Mums current account and have been going back out again (plus more besides) via direct debit as minimum payments each month for the credit card debts.

I'm sorry to hear about your circumstances. I am surprised that the CAB adviser did not realise that there must be home fees to pay from your Mum's income. Obviously you must immediately stop the minimum payments as at the moment your Mum's income has got to go towards paying her home fees, and she should be left with the princely sum of about £21 per week for all her other needs. Please make sure that the adviser addresses the following:
Is NHS continuing care a possibility for your Mum at all?
Has the local authority correctly financially assessed her needs
Is she receiving all benefits she should be including pensioncredit if applicable and the Nursing Care allowance if NHS Continuing care is not a possibility.
How much of the debt is the sum which should have been paid from her pension,and how much is the "top up" A top up is the difference between the sum paid by the local authority and the amount of the fees at a particular home if they are more expensive than the LA would fund. if some of teh fees being sort are a top up then it may be expected from other members of teh family. It may be possible to dispute it on the basis that there is no other suitable cheaper home available with beds for your Mum.
Good Luck

vultura

Thanks JoannaA.

Have since been back to Age Concern, spoken to a different adviser who is more informed on the care side of things. Took a while for her to see the issues in the case, then she understood that the home had never been paid user contributions and the PCT had been paying the Nursing Care component. She contacted the hospital Social Worker who has Mums case on her books and asked her to contact me urgently. She did so next day and I briefly explained the problem, she was horrified at the amount of debt and was suprised that no one at CAB had suggested to me that I inform her of financial issues. Had a meeting with her a few days later, taking all paperwork with me. She took copies of all statements from the time Mum was admitted to home and was to send them off to another department, with a view to having a new financial assessment done. She and her manager have also agreed to help by contact the creditors, with a view to having some/all of the debt written off on the basis that Mum is in no position to pay them.

She also asked me to complete the standing order form for the home payments, as a gesture of goodwill towards them. She knows that money will only last for couple of months before the account is empty. She has contacted the home directly, though exactly what was discussed I have no idea.

As to being fully funded, right now thats a different problem, will have to look at that when I can see things more clearly and have less issues hanging over me.

vultura

Time to ressurrect this thread.

Things have changed now, but not for the better.

Sadly Mum passed away in late May.

The debt to the home has been paid by Social Services, though I am warned the County Council may ask the family for a contribution towards it.

The debts are still to be cleared, though the accounts are now frozen. The CAB gave me the impression that having spoken to the creditors following Mums death the creditors understood the situation and just needed confirmation of death before closing the accounts, that seems to not be the case and a number of them are it seems seeking payment from the estate and we continue to have various DCA letters delivered.

There was no will left.

The only estate as such is a joint account, with Mums share being a little over £4,000.

She had 3 policies designed to cover funeral costs, do the payments from these form part of the estate too?

NorthernLas

The joint account does not form part of the estate see: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Death/Preparation/DG_10029468

I am not sure about money left from the policies.

I think that any debts would be paid from the estate and then the debt would be finished. See: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/DebtsAndArrears/DG_10013093

There is a factsheet from the national debtline, and they may be ableto give specific advice by telephone to clarify things. http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=21_what_to_do_about_debt_when_someone_dies

churchrat

hi
please remember that a creditor may "ask" for anything they like, it does not mean you have to pay for it. The estate that your mother left is the only resource that should be used to pay her debts.

Dcas will continue to write and ask for money. Please do not worry about it, as long as "her" money/estate has all been used to pay for her debt, they cannot get anything else. It will not stop them from asking however.

UnderPressure

Hello

I have nothing to offer for which I am sorry I just did not want to read and run on this whole story that has been going on over 3 years and wanted to offer my sympathies with regard to your recent loss

I hope you manage to get things into some kind of order so you can now continue with your life...............

Best wishes

vultura

NorthernLas wrote: »

The joint account does not form part of the estate see: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Death/Preparation/DG_10029468

I am not sure about money left from the policies.

I think that any debts would be paid from the estate and then the debt would be finished. See: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/DebtsAndArrears/DG_10013093

There is a factsheet from the national debtline, and they may be ableto give specific advice by telephone to clarify things. http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=21_what_to_do_about_debt_when_someone_dies

To hear that the joint account is safe is one worry less, thanks.

churchrat wrote: »

hi
please remember that a creditor may "ask" for anything they like, it does not mean you have to pay for it. The estate that your mother left is the only resource that should be used to pay her debts.

Dcas will continue to write and ask for money. Please do not worry about it, as long as "her" money/estate has all been used to pay for her debt, they cannot get anything else. It will not stop them from asking however.

Thanks, I had become used to them arriving, but to see them continue after the creditors have been informed of the death in writing is starting to really grate.

UnderPressure wrote: »

Hello

I have nothing to offer for which I am sorry I just did not want to read and run on this whole story that has been going on over 3 years and wanted to offer my sympathies with regard to your recent loss

I hope you manage to get things into some kind of order so you can now continue with your life...............

Best wishes

Don't be sorry, you found time to reply with support and that in itself is enough

I too hope things can be resolved soon, so we can all move on.

vultura

Received a letter yesterday from Social Services, they are requesting 100% payment for the care home fees.

Nothing in the estate to cover it, now what to do?