Has a bullet been dodged?

Spursmad

In post 2 it was stated

The time limit of 14 days applies to the PPC's ability to 'hold the keeper liable' for any parking charge potentially owed by the driver. (my quotation marks)

So this 14 days to get the first notification is a lot of tosh then.?, as if they have screwed up on getting it out within this mythical 14 days. they could date the letter 24 Dec and claim it arrived on Fi 28th????
Which it hasn't so the clock is still ticking. Would getting the postie to sign it have any weight?

I am asking all these questions now so if/when it happens i know what to do.

The only thing in my favour is that Waitrose Head office is in Bracknell, so not a long trek to ask them to call Britannia off.

And the six years to do court.?
I could have moved by then, dont get the correspondence and end up with a default CCJ?

Do i write to then to tell them my new address just in case they are sitting on it? ( being facetious)

This has more get out holes for them than a colander

Umkomaas

Just responding to the comments you've made on bondy lad's thread ....

There's no confusion in my mind. In order to hold the keeper liable (for the actions of the driver) the PPC must comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, which, inter alia, include strict time limits for the keeper to receive the official Notice to Keeper from the PPC.

The time limit for a parking charge issued as a result of an ANPR camera capture is 14 days from the day following the day of the parking event. Weekends and Bank Holidays all count as 'days' of the required 14.

If it is not received by the appropriate date there can be no Keeper Liability. It doesn't mean that the charge is null and void, it just means that the PPC can only then pursue the driver on the day - which gives them an uphill struggle unless someone (you) reveals the identity of the driver to them - so that's why the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 has a very carefully crafted initial appeal to prevent keepers blowing off their toes by writing their own appeal or can't resist the temptation to alter the template.

But you're not there yet, you must wait to receive the NtK from Britannia. No action is required by you if or until such NtK is received - apart from preparation by reading the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 to help you understand what might lie ahead, and how to deal with it.

Spursmad

Umkomass

Thanks, have got it right in my head now. It was the Yes and no bit that got me.

Will sit tight and not worry
Appreciate your time to put me straight

Thanks again

Oh and i have no intention of telling them who was driving

Spursmad

Further to my original post ,the letter from Britannia has arrived to me, the RK

They have an alleged infringment on 12 Dec 2018
The letter kindly is 'postmarked' '02/01/2019
and date of 2/1/2019 on notice
The invoice states

'...... that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full
As we do not know the drivers name or current address,and if you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time, the RK should tell us the name and address and pass this to them for payment
If the RK was the driver at the time of the event the RK is reqd to pay or appeal the parking charge',

Usual guff about appealing and onward to POPLA. However they do not mention POFA 2012 at all
In the appeal as keeper (using the one size fits all template) can i also refer to Sect 9 sub section 5 and 6 and add that as this has not been adhered to please forward a POPLA code so the matter of non compliance can be dealt with there?

Or is there a more formal approach

Thanks

( I shall still keep the HQ around the corner up my sleeve at the moment)

Fruitcake

Spursmad wrote: »

Further to my original post ,the letter from Britannia has arrived to me, the RK

They have an alleged infringment on 12 Dec 2018
The letter kindly is 'postmarked' '02/01/2019
and date of 2/1/2019 on notice
The invoice states

'...... that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full
As we do not know the drivers name or current address,and if you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time, the RK should tell us the name and address and pass this to them for payment
If the RK was the driver at the time of the event the RK is reqd to pay or appeal the parking charge',

Usual guff about appealing and onward to POPLA. However they do not mention POFA 2012 at all
In the appeal as keeper (using the one size fits all template) can i also refer to Sect 9 sub section 5 and 6 and add that as this has not been adhered to please forward a POPLA code so the matter of non compliance can be dealt with there?

Or is there a more formal approach

Thanks

( I shall still keep the HQ around the corner up my sleeve at the moment)

The words I have highlighted are lies. The word "should" does not appear in the POFA.


You don't need to ask for a PoPLA code, but you can if you want. The BPA CoP requires them to send one if/when they reject the appeal.

You can tell them they have failed to meet the strict requirements of the POFA timescales if you want, so they should either cancel or take this up with the driver, who will not be named.

I doubt it will make any difference, but it's up to you if you want to amend the tried and tested template. Just make sure you don't give away the driver's identity because you have meddled with it.

Please complain to your MP about this unregulated scam. It's the only way this will ever get stopped.

Spursmad

Well, i have been looking at POFA and this letter, and there seems to be more holes than a Swiss Cheese

First parking was on 12 Dec

Without writing out each clause i see that they have failed at the first hurdle as the notice was not received within the 14 days specified
In fact it wasn.t sent out until 2 Jan 2019, well past the 26th Dec time out date

Secondly they imply,that i should give them the name and address of the driver. whereby they are only instructed the 'invite' me to offer this information slight pedantry but there is a host of differences in the words must and should in legal terms, a i have learned from the Highway Code! however should' is not mentioned at all in th POFA

Thirdly they have not in the letter warned me about the RK being pursued should the driver fail to pay in the 28 days from the date of the letter

In fact they just say IF i was the driver at the time i am required to pay it or appeal

https://imgur.com/a/pzzAlYV

So would a shortened version of the template ( there seems to be a lot that is not applicable in this case) sent with the reasons why i am appealling

Umkomaas

Good analysis.

But why are you saying this:

So would a shortened version of the template ( there seems to be a lot that is not applicable in this case) sent with the reasons why i am appealling

When the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 tells you this:

TEMPLATE ''ONE SIZE FITS ALL'' FIRST APPEAL THAT DOESN'T SAY WHO WAS DRIVING

Template appeal for BPA or IPC members - copy this wording into the online appeal box:

sent with the reasons why i am appealling

Which 'reasons' would they be?

Spursmad

Umkomaas

Thanks for being patient. I have seen a similar current case involving Britannia, the only difference is that case involves non payment and this one is an overstay, which i am assured by the driver is 'about right!'
The letter from them is identical in the text both front and rear except the days quoted are slightly different

To get this straight i just forward the template to them as the RK who received the letter and nowhere imply who was driving,and await a POPLA code from them

Once this is to hand i advise POPLA that

1) it was received out of time ( unlike the other case i have an envelope with the posting date on)
2) that is a non POFA compliant letter that cannot hold the RK liable

Have i got it correct?

KeithP

Spursmad wrote: »

Once this is to hand i advise POPLA that

1) it was received out of time ( unlike the other case i have an envelope with the posting date on)
2) that is a non POFA compliant letter that cannot hold the RK liable

Have i got it correct?

Yes you could do that, but you would be relying on the PoPLA assessor understanding your explanation of POFA and if they don't manage to do that then you are sunk.

It would be a brave person who relied on a one point PoPLA appeal.

Have you looked at any of the example PoPLA appeals linked from post #3 of the NEWBIES thread?

There is a very good illustrated one there that runs to twenty-nine pages.

Spursmad

Will do ,but the post by Lgaaa seems to fit esp as there is talk in there on non compliancy